The new PM

[wales01man]

Re: The new PM

After events in France overnight not sure if that will go ahead. Usually COBRA meeting after a terrorist attack so we will wait and see if this happens...

Would hope security for the Country is more important than visiting Queen Nicola a phone call to her saying simply no referendum for Scotland you had your chance we are respecting our result you do the same

[JulieM]

Re: The new PM

I think you have hit the nail n the head..... the important part of any education is not the gaining of qualifications but the learning of how to think independently (and not just regurgitating previously devoured info) and being critical (ie questioning and not just accepting what one is told).
Skills which should be taught throughout one's education, not just at tertiary level.

.

I couldn't agree more. This is only an idea but could that be relevant to the claims by some of us more mature people that exams are getting easier. Is it really that the syllabus is getting narrower and the teaching more focused . Although I didn't do it, there used to be an A level called general studies that was just that, more general and critical. I don't think it is an option anymore.

[PAWS]

Re: The new PM

There has been a lot of comment on what is bad about Britain but I tell you one thing; the security services in this country are outstanding. France has had a horrible time lately but when you consider the UK is more likely to be a target you realise just how well guarded we are. Foiled attempts at blowing us all to Kingdom come do not make the headlines as much as illegal immigrants who have disappeared into the crowds but they happen terrifyingly often. The good news is, thanks to the intelligence and diligence of our security services we are much safer than the majority of targeted nations.

[Openlaw15]

Re: The new PM

Sadly for our final assessment we don't get any feedback - I am improving I got my highest scores by around 10% points on both exam assignments.

When I did an OU course, ie W222 (commercial transactions), we got feed back.

[Openlaw15]

Re: The new PM

Mmmm

I really am not sure what you are trying to say or if you are slightly biased. Yes of course law is a good degree but there are different types of law degree from different universities. I do not thing a llb from Oxford would be the same as a BA Hons from say Derby whatever the classification. People with degrees in say PPE or Classics would I am sure take exception to what you seem to suggest.

I am not sure what you call a soft subject but for example my University is in the top 5 for politics, a subject that I could if I wished major in, I could also major in business studies, Sociology, philosophy or many other subjects. League tables of course vary.

Maybe I misunderstood but you seem to be suggesting that law is the subject and all others are soft, I am sure you didn't mean that but that is how it appeared to me.

Different degrees require different skills and yes, while it may be true that employers look upon Ancient and traditional universities as providing better education that is not always the case. There is a lot of snobbery about HE , the course you do and the institution you attend. HE is far more than just the degree or even the classification.

Now on if you'll just indulge a gentle swipe, so your comments about Corbyn's mother were lifted from a newspaper , isn't that plagerism. That is a gentle tease and not to be taken to heart.

No, it's not plagiarism - we exhausted that subject on another thread. To paraphrase a minor point from a news article is not plagiarism. Law is a premium subject just like medicine, just like architecture etc. In the USA as afore-stated law is a premium and post graduate subject. My point was, is, law is an academically challenging subject - sociology and psychology in my view as not half as difficult. I could obtain a B grade in sociology without really trying that hard. In terms of law, obtaining a B from any of the foundation (LLB) subjects, whether criminal law, public law etc was not at all easy. I personally thought, Commercial Transactions: law and Practice, when I did it with the OU though was overall the most difficult law course I've done to date including all of the LLB modules, whether Criminal law, Public law, or Land law, or Equity and Trusts. The skillset from law modules is simply immense, but the foundation courses skillset is an altogether different skillset. With law, you have to answer and write the assignments in a certain way or the consequence is either a low grade or a fail. LLB modules are very strict in terms of weighting, ie if you get a low score on the exam or the assignments overall - you obtain a low pass for that module overall. I mean by 'soft' any subject other than law where it's easier to obtain a 2.1. The law degree in my view is under-valued in the UK as it's typically classed the same as any other degree, but it is unlike any other degree with the aforesaid exceptions, ie medicine et al. Hypothetically speaking, an employer would do well to choose a 2.2 law degree over a 2.1 degree as 2.2 law degree, or even a 3rd class law degree, still meets the standard prerequisite for a legal career as solicitor or barrister. Qualification inflation in the UK though however creates problems. In the USA there are different tiers ie sociology at undergraduate level and law at post graduate level. In the UK though there are no hierarchies presently as the universities offering the soft degrees whinged about theirs being under-valued prior to the higher education reform.

[nemesis45]

Re: The new PM

WTF has this got to do with the new PM??????
The state educated ministers appointed will most likely have experience of the real world rather than " school " uni, politics and will be all the more rounded in knowledge and experience.

Not just academic experience as openlaw claims to have but experience at the sharp end of daily life.

nem

[JulieM]

Re: The new PM

Nem
While it hasn't directly got anything to do with the skills of the new PM it started when Openlaw said that because Corbyn had no degree he was unfit to be PM. I know lots of people have lots of views on Corbyn but here we were discussing his academic ability.

I think that we actually need to remember that ministers and even the PM run the country taking advice from the civil service. The top of the civil service have degrees such as PPE or classics.


Openlaw
I was not privy to any discussion on plagerism, I was gently teasing because as I am sure you are aware , sources should be credited in academia but this isn't so I was teasing.

with all due respect I think you take your qualifications too seriously, I assume you have an llb and yes you should be proud of that. It is as far as I am aware not enough to allow you to practice as a solicitor or barrister, there is much further training.
If you have done all the courses you say , are you a perpetual student? An llb takes min 3 years full time but you talk about other degree level qualifications.

I think as well you are somewhat over inflating the quality of an llb as you are saying it is the best degree for getting you to think etc, politics classics et al. are just the same as is the requirement to structure essays and assignments in certain ways.
You have said that all degrees other than law are soft, I suspect you now have half of academia after you.

I have no idea what level you did sociology to, it is very different at different levels, the same with psychology which is a scientific based discipline Different universities call different things different levels, at the OU I believe they are levels 1 2 3 whereas in the department I am in they are 4 5 and 6 . I imagine 1=3 etc. .

If you would like to further discuss this maybe somewhere else.

There is nothing wrong with being proud of your degree but I think you are in danger of alienating people with your superiority complex and your incessant use of language that many find slightly alien .

[EXC]

Re: The new PM

Anna Soubry's been fired as a business minister.

I doubt if Dermot Murnaghan will be too bothered.

[Openlaw15]

Re: The new PM

Nem
While it hasn't directly got anything to do with the skills of the new PM it started when Openlaw said that because Corbyn had no degree he was unfit to be PM. I know lots of people have lots of views on Corbyn but here we were discussing his academic ability."

When a person has a studied subjects to at least degree level, the world should be viewed very critically; so university encourages you to challenge things, ideas, politics. To this extent universities should bring out what you already have, not teach you how to think. Corbyn, and let's not forget am a Labour supporter saying these things, simply does not have this view of the world - so being a graduate is not just about the economic skillset that is acquired but rather the it's the richness of the higher education experience which should challenge his existence up to then. Am I being philosophical, yes is the resounding answer.

Nevertheless, in this modern age without at least a degree level education any prospective Prime Minister in my view, where comparisons with the hypothetical equivalent (what is used for the duty of care tort standards) are made, should be equipped with an ability to think at a very high level, with the graduate standard being no exception. Look at most of the current Labour MPs and of course probably nearly all of the Conservative Government, you'll see that they all have a very, very high standard of education. Oxford and Cambridge for these are basically already planned for them from a young age. They're called a political elite for a reason, Eton is not for the average kid but for the elite; it's simply the paradigm of the elite, the upper class, and the upper middle-class. Society, in my view, is made up of different societies although having parallel existences but not sharing the same human experiences, which is what makes a Tory savagely cut the public's welfare without even breaking into a sweat. They know them not. It's why an American army will invade a foreign enemy's country because to them they know it, the people, or its culture not, just because a man in authority tells them to, ie Tony Blair and the Hussein propaganda. Tony Blair of course is just a face that hides the commercial realities and higher interests of war. It is simply in my view about control and of course the elite's pre-occupation with wars.

"I think that we actually need to remember that ministers and even the PM run the country taking advice from the civil service. The top of the civil service have degrees such as PPE or classics. "

The civil service are like the furniture and are there when a new government comes in. These societies keep the system working, without them the political elite control nothing.

"Openlaw

......... with all due respect I think you take your qualifications too seriously, I assume you have an llb and yes you should be proud of that. It is as far as I am aware not enough to allow you to practice as a solicitor or barrister, there is much further training.
If you have done all the courses you say , are you a perpetual student? An llb takes min 3 years full time but you talk about other degree level qualifications....

.......I think as well you are somewhat over inflating the quality of an llb as you are saying it is the best degree for getting you to think etc, politics classics et al. are just the same as is the requirement to structure essays and assignments in certain ways.....

"You have said that all degrees other than law are soft, I suspect you now have half of academia after you. "

Certain studies were carried out on law students and the results showed that studying law is so cerebral that said students brain cells temporarily die but return when no longer studying law: Debra S. Austin, D. S, (2014), Killing Them Softly: Neuroscience Reveals How Brain Cells Die from Law School Stress and How Neural Self-Hacking Can Optimize Cognitive Performance, 59 LOY. L. REV. 791, 794.

"I have no idea what level you did sociology to, it is very different at different levels, the same with psychology which is a scientific based discipline Different universities call different things different levels, at the OU I believe they are levels 1 2 3 whereas in the department I am in they are 4 5 and 6 . I imagine 1=3 etc."

University could easily be done in a year but instead it teases the subject year by year, in my view to keep graduates out of the economy temporarily whilst a suitable economy is prepared for them (the graduates). Law could be completed in my view in 2 years, as a conversion course to law is completed in a year when studied fulltime. If the person has not done a law degree the lawyers are not likely to be as equipped those who studied law's foundation subjects in depth. It's what Weber and his proponents would say is a McDonaldisation of society, ie efficiently use resources for lawyers on the cheap. In the USA McDonaldisation of law creates a two or more tier system of lawyers.

If you would like to further discuss this maybe somewhere else.

There is nothing wrong with being proud of your degree but I think you are in danger of alienating people with your superiority complex and your incessant use of language that many find slightly alien .

A degree is to me but a piece of paper. I do not possess a superiority complex; I am just saying that there are different types of higher education experience and some degrees are softer than others, for instance sociology degree is no where near the competence standard of a law degree. Employers are blinded by the propaganda that universities spew, which is why there are apparently 'good universities.' One could study LLB law in one's local college and in my view is still as excellent as LLB law undertaken at Oxford. The material differences is in terms of the foundation subjects.

[Crazy council]

Re: The new PM

lol [MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION]

degree is to me but a piece of paper. I do not possess a superiority complex;

[Openlaw15]

Re: The new PM

Nem
While it hasn't directly got anything to do with the skills of the new PM it started when Openlaw said that because Corbyn had no degree he was unfit to be PM. I know lots of people have lots of views on Corbyn but here we were discussing his academic ability.

I think that we actually need to remember that ministers and even the PM run the country taking advice from the civil service. The top of the civil service have degrees such as PPE or classics.


Openlaw
I was not privy to any discussion on plagerism, I was gently teasing because as I am sure you are aware , sources should be credited in academia but this isn't so I was teasing.

with all due respect I think you take your qualifications too seriously, I assume you have an llb and yes you should be proud of that. It is as far as I am aware not enough to allow you to practice as a solicitor or barrister, there is much further training.
If you have done all the courses you say , are you a perpetual student? An llb takes min 3 years full time but you talk about other degree level qualifications.

I think as well you are somewhat over inflating the quality of an llb as you are saying it is the best degree for getting you to think etc, politics classics et al. are just the same as is the requirement to structure essays and assignments in certain ways.
You have said that all degrees other than law are soft, I suspect you now have half of academia after you.

I have no idea what level you did sociology to, it is very different at different levels, the same with psychology which is a scientific based discipline Different universities call different things different levels, at the OU I believe they are levels 1 2 3 whereas in the department I am in they are 4 5 and 6 . I imagine 1=3 etc. .

If you would like to further discuss this maybe somewhere else.

There is nothing wrong with being proud of your degree but I think you are in danger of alienating people with your superiority complex and your incessant use of language that many find slightly alien .

Look at all the likes for this post - this is what I call a massive clique. Hmm, pathetic really. It's so childish really but water off a duck's back to me.

[Crazy council]

Re: The new PM

[MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION] you only recive it if you dish it out

You make some very valuable contributions to posts, but you can sometimes come across as very rude, and sometimes you start gooing off in all directions instead of keeing to the points of the post. .

[Openlaw15]

Re: The new PM

@Openlaw15 you only recive it if you dish it out

You make some very valuable contributions to posts, but you can sometimes come across as very rude, and sometimes you start gooing off in all directions instead of keeing to the points of the post. .

There is more than 1 way to read a post - there may be more than one route; more than one remedy. So, it's best to cover all possibilities.

[leclerc]

Re: The new PM

There is more than 1 way to read a post - there may be more than one route; more than one remedy. So, it's best to cover all possibilities.

Despite the fact that this thread appears to be boring me now that it appears to be skiing down a slope not anything much related to the actual topic of conversation, might I give some advice from one of my favourite sources: The good Judge Judy.

KISS principle: Keep It Simple Stupid

[Fred]

Re: The new PM

We did not vote for this prime minister.............even less so & just when we need to be careful with foreign affairs it becomes obvious we as a country are prepared to appoint a "buffoon" (unelected) to further our cause.

Is this the best of a bad job or a complete joke.........................perhaps a little of both ?

If we had an election to cover the unelected...........then where is the competition ?