OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

[EXC]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

The mind boggles dunnit?

I think the FOS has a lot of potential now.

[Amethyst]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

RE Centiums question about the CCD - no we didn't get to respond. There have been a lot of consultations I'd have liked to respond to, as I would still like to with the credit/store card consultation - but its fitting it in around everything else AND drumming up interest in assisting with the responses can be difficult.

Actually as it took me so long to find that one on here I might try get all the consultations thread together into one forum for ease of reference.

[Centium5000]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

The mind boggles dunnit?

I think the FOS has a lot of potential now.

Customer: Dear banky, please find enclosed a list of reasons why your charges are unfair [LB submission to OFT rewritten and enclosed]

Bank: Denied, denied, denied! P.S. You might want to take this up with the FOS if you don't agree with our final decision. [Wipes sweat from brow]

Customer: Dear FOSsy, please find enclosed my complaint to my bank - can you please ask them to pay up? [LB arguments enclosed again]

FOS: Errrr... SUPERVISOR! We've another one of those complaints - that's 10,072 this week and we're running out of storage space for all the paper!

....Some time later...

OFT: We just have to launch another test case and quick. The FOS guys had to be rescued from their building last week due to all the paperwork they've received! Having read the arguments, we might even win this time.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Centium, if I was a betting man, I would be betting on OFT test case II: The Sequel.......I would watch it cos the ending may well be better than the first film

[Centium5000]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Agreed, but if we can scare the banks into paying out some more FOS complaints in the meantime, all the better!

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Agreed, but if we can scare the banks into paying out some more FOS complaints in the meantime, all the better!

We need a better waiver that does not simply say that the bank can walk all over you and that the FOS/FSA will allow it. Personally, some of the complaints made should have had a certain amount of communication on behalf of consumers by the FOS. Clear breaches should have been spotted by their case teams and perhaps collated. Let's put it this way, we have learnt a lot from the first OFT test case, and we will no doubt not make the same mistakes twice as we did before.

[Centium5000]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Ive always liked this video, explains it all nicely:

Money as Debt

Although Im sure some of it is propaganda?

Lumi x

Nattie won't like it (), but here's the follow-up:

Money as Debt II - Promises Unleashed

Updated to be more relevant to our current situation.

Having studied a little economics myself, I'd say it's pretty educational. When the video says 'interest', think 'interest plus charges'.

It's hard to understand why the bank charges really exist unless you know the history of the institutions that created them...

[righty]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Nattie won't like it (), but here's the follow-up:

Money as Debt II - Promises Unleashed

Updated to be more relevant to our current situation.

Having studied a little economics myself, I'd say it's pretty educational. When the video says 'interest', think 'interest plus charges'.

It's hard to understand why the bank charges really exist unless you know the history of the institutions that created them...

Study Thomas Jefferson his remarks are so relevant today

[Centium5000]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

When a bank applies a relevant charge, does it loan us the money?

If it does (and I believe it does) isn't it creating money with no corresponding liability?

In other words, the charge acts just like interest - it expands the bank's share of the money supply without putting anything back into the economy.

What size loan, at what interest rate would give the bank the same revenue as from these charges?

Moreover, the bank can earn interest on that money by lending it out again, while still charging interest on the original charge; that effectively doubles its interest. I bet that isn't accounted for in the £2.8 billion p.a. and the rest will have gone off-balance-sheet.

Some might argue that this doesn't further the case against bank charges as it isn't related to our contracts with the banks. I reckon they'd be right.

What it may do is provide a macroeconomic case against the charges so if / when the FSA gets jurisdiction over the charges, a case can be made on grounds of 'financial stability'. That's what the FSA is really interested in after all.

At the moment the OFT is really fighting our corner and I wouldn't blame the banks for wanting the FSA to take over so that 'financial stability' issues come before 'fairness'.

If that happens, we'd need to show why this is more dangerous to financial stability than redressing it. That time may not yet have come, but forewarned is forearmed as they say.

[orc]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

The mind boggles dunnit?

I think the FOS has a lot of potential now.

As I suggested over on MSE yesterday.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...9&postcount=17

Yesterday, 7:33 PM #17 orc
MoneySaving Stalwart


Join Date: Feb 2008
Post Count: 250
Thanked 134 Times in 90 Posts



Quote:
Originally Posted by [B]crawli1;27949289

However, if there are individual factors or circumstances particular to you - or to the way your bank operated your account at the time the charges were made - which you feel should be taken into account, then please write and let me know by 31st December 2009, so we can assess whether they are likely to make a difference.
There is more information about our approach to complaints about bank charges on our website (at
The Following User Says Thank You to orc For This Useful Post: Show me >>


I agree.

An earlier post suggested making use of the information that FOS had collated so far, contained in all of their correspondence. That perhaps is worth pursuing under Freedom of Information, if they have it collated or have undertaken their own internal research.

[EXC]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

An earlier post suggested making use of the information that FOS had collated so far, contained in all of their correspondence. That perhaps is worth pursuing under Freedom of Information, if they have it collated or have undertaken their own internal research.

The FOS is not covered by the Freedom of Information Act.

[orc]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Thanks EXC.

Lets be inventive then and see what other routes are possible.

[Amethyst]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Annoyingly, FOS and ACPO (two organisations I'd love to FOI )


MOJ
''
The response also makes clear the government's intention to consider whether section 5 or primary legislation are options to include Network Rail and utility companies within the FOIA regime. The current list of persons proposed in this first section 5 order are; Academy schools, Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO), Financial Ombudsman Service and UCAS. These bodies will be consulted directly, and the government aims to bring forward a section 5 order early in the 2009/2010 parliamentary session.''

FOS are usually quite good at publishing information and answering questions so doesnt hurt to ask them for things you'd like, but just be aware they don't have to give you anything.


Re Centiums post about creating money - whoooosh lol - but will point Tools over to it as he's forever trying to explain the overall economy to me

[PocketTheDifference]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Customer: Dear banky, please find enclosed a list of reasons why your charges are unfair [LB submission to OFT rewritten and enclosed]

Bank: Denied, denied, denied! P.S. You might want to take this up with the FOS if you don't agree with our final decision. [Wipes sweat from brow]

Customer: Dear FOSsy, please find enclosed my complaint to my bank - can you please ask them to pay up? [LB arguments enclosed again]

FOS: Errrr... SUPERVISOR! We've another one of those complaints - that's 10,072 this week and we're running out of storage space for all the paper!

....Some time later...

OFT: We just have to launch another test case and quick. The FOS guys had to be rescued from their building last week due to all the paperwork they've received! Having read the arguments, we might even win this time.

If only it was that easy
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
And the other problem witht that story Centium is you havn't put a happy ending there :P!!

[Tools]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Re Centiums post about creating money - whoooosh lol - but will point Tools over to it as he's forever trying to explain the overall economy to me

Anyone want to buy a £20 tractor?