Cabot Financial UK Ltd

[nemesis45]

Further to the numerous queries on the validity of Cabot Court Claims.
I have been advised that:
A firm may operate as an " Authorised Representative" in an arrangement
with an " Authorised Firm" ( The Parent Company) to act as an Authorised
Representative before the end of the application period.
I have now asked if this is the case with Cabot Financial UK Ltd and if the
claims issued prior to the Company's Interim Permissions Lapsing.
My feeling at present is that this is what is happening

nem

[mystery1]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

Representative, so not the legal owner then ?

M1

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

Somehow I always suspected that may be the case, can't believe a company like that would leave themselves wide open without having some sort of safety net in place. :ohwell:

[nemesis45]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

Representative, so not the legal owner then ?

M1

Key word MI **Authorised** Representative" I have another e-mail from the
FCA this evening which I wont deal with tonight as I have just been informed
my eldest son has been diagnosed with a major heart problem.

nem

[mystery1]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

Somehow I always suspected that may be the case, can't believe a company like that would leave themselves wide open without having some sort of safety net in place. :ohwell:

If they are only a representative then do they have locus standi ?

M1

[pt2537]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

Further to the numerous queries on the validity of Cabot Court Claims.
I have been advised that:
A firm may operate as an " Authorised Representative" in an arrangement
with an " Authorised Firm" ( The Parent Company) to act as an Authorised
Representative before the end of the application period.
I have now asked if this is the case with Cabot Financial UK Ltd and if the
claims issued prior to the Company's Interim Permissions Lapsing.
My feeling at present is that this is what is happening

nem

utter bolllllllocks,

A) Hicks v Walker and Reynolds makes it clear you cant use an agent to avoid licence laws
B) Cabot UK are the owner of the debt, thus they are the creditor within the meaning given in s21 and s189 CCA. Thus they must be authorised as this cannot be avoided.

[nemesis45]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

utter bolllllllocks,

A) Hicks v Walker and Reynolds makes it clear you cant use an agent to avoid licence laws
B) Cabot UK are the owner of the debt, thus they are the creditor within the meaning given in s21 and s189 CCA. Thus they must be authorised as this cannot be avoided.

Ahh the FCA talks ******** then!!

Questions were asked and I decided to find out what the situation is exactly I believe what the person at the FCA has quoted is directly from it's web site.

Nobody else has bothered to find out !
There more from the FCA but I'll leave that for now.

[mystery1]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

There more from the FCA but I'll leave that for now.

Why ? There are loads of people keeping an eye on this as they have court claims. Whether the info is good or bad it'll help them understand things if they are faced with the same arguments in court if they are aired well in advance.

Bullshit baffles brains so it's bound to baffle Judges and a terrified LIP. Give them a chance.

M1

[Berniethebolt]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

If the FCA were always right a lot of things would be different

A lot of firms would be closed or fined for breaking FCA rules

The FOS would have shut up shop for being so ineffective .

I am afraid that this makes absolutely no sense to me

I have now asked if this is the case with Cabot Financial UK Ltd and if theclaims issued prior to the Company's Interim Permissions Lapsing.

If it is being suggested that any claims issued prior to the IP lapsing are legitimate what about those that have been issued afterwards and we know that there have been many .

[Berniethebolt]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

Nem
Disagreements aside I hope your son is ok. If it means anything , many major heart problems are routine these days and people go on to live full and active lives after surgery

[pt2537]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

Ahh the FCA talks ******** then!!

Questions were asked and I decided to find out what the situation is exactly I believe what the person at the FCA has quoted is directly from it's web site.

Nobody else has bothered to find out !
There more from the FCA but I'll leave that for now.

Actually, i did bother to look into this, in great detail, theres an appeal ongoing at this moment which also raises the question of illegality within it, so there will be a judicial ruling from an appeal judge soon on this point.

Suffice to say that Cabot are either a creditor in which case they must be authorised , see s21 CCA and s189 which defines the words used in s21, or Cabot are undertaking ancillary debt collection business assuming they arent the creditor thus fall within the above, in which case the case of Hick shows what they are doing by appointing an agent cannot work. For completeness see s145 and 146 which explains all

[pt2537]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

Actually, i did bother to look into this, in great detail, theres an appeal ongoing at this moment which also raises the question of illegality within it, so there will be a judicial ruling from an appeal judge soon on this point.

Suffice to say that Cabot are either a creditor in which case they must be authorised , see s21 CCA and s189 which defines the words used in s21, or Cabot are undertaking ancillary debt collection business assuming they arent the creditor thus fall within the above, in which case the case of Hick shows what they are doing by appointing an agent cannot work. For completeness see s145 and 146 which explains all

forgot to mention the Judicial Ruling in Jones v Link Financial on the point about creditors under assignments.

1. In my judgment the reason for the reference to "duties" in section 189 is that an assignee only becomes the "creditor" where the statutory duties relevant to the enforcement of the creditor's rights have passed to the assignee. This will not be the case where there has been an equitable assignment of which no notice has been given. In such a case the debtor will remain legally liable to the assignor and the assignor will remain responsible for the performance of the statutory duties relating to enforcement, such as duties to provide information and notices.
2. Where, however, there is a legal assignment the debtor's liability will be owed to the assignee and it is the assignee who will have to perform the statutory duties relating to enforcement. This is not because he becomes under a contractual obligation to perform those duties, but rather because he cannot assert his rights under the regulated credit agreement without accepting the statutory obligation to perform duties under the 1974 Act relating to enforcement of those rights.

Now then, Enforcing a regulated agreement, if cabot arent the creditor, who is? who carries the duty of compliance with s77 for example? ahhhh thats easy

1. I agree with Professor Guest that this would apply to the statutory duties under ss.77, 78 (duty to give information to the debtor), ss.76, 87, 98 (duty to serve enforcement, default and termination notices), s.97 (duty to supply settlement figure), s.103 (duty to provide termination statement), and the restrictions on enforcement imposed by ss. 90 and 92. I also agree with him that different considerations may well apply to a pre-assignment liability such as that as may be imposed under ss75, 75A.

[pt2537]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

So the simple point has to be, if the duties of the original creditor under the 1974 Act pass to the new creditor under an assignment, then Cabot as the assignee have an automatic requirement to be authorised.

Hicks made it clear that you cannot use agents to avoid the licensing requirements of the 1974 Act. im sorry if people disagree, im sorry if people get upset that i disagree with the FCA who coincidently dont have a duty to advise on the law and cannot give legal advice, but if someone wishes to put a binding authority on the table that says cabot can do what they are doing, then ill happily accept im wrong.

[Berniethebolt]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

Hi PT
It is a really interesting point that has been raised. I will admit that part of me wonders how such a large company could make such a cock up and that it must be legit however then I just remember how corrupt the financial world is and those that serve it, government included.

What worries me is how far it will need to go before it is stopped, how many judges will make 'mistakes' and clearly judges do make mistakes or we wouldn't need appeal courts and the supreme court or even the European Court . \

It can take years to get to the supreme court even longer to get into Europe

As for the likes of the FCA, FOS ICO etc I am afraid i do not trust them and most of the info passed to the public is from 'desk jockeys'

I am curious about the quote from nemesis as it can be interpreted in two ways
1) It is what he understands from maybe a phone call or email
2) It is what the desk jockey understands

Post 1 could easily be a cut and paste job from an email received , I'm not saying it is but it is ambiguous

[pt2537]

Re: Cabot Financial UK Ltd

Ok decided to put out on here my full reasoning why i believe cabot must hold a licence with the FCA to carry out any CCA regulated work.

Firstly, Cabot ARE assignees, undisputable, therefore the Judgment of Jones and Link helps us on this point,

In the light of that conclusion Ground 1 does not arise since Link, as legal assignee, is a creditor under the 1974 Act

So we look to section 21 CCA which states

21 Businesses needing a licence.

(1)Subject to this section, a licence is required to carry on a consumer credit business or [F1a consumer hire business or an ancillary credit business] .

so what is a consumer credit business?

s189 CCA defines this as

consumer credit business’ means any business being carried on by a person so far as it comprises or relates to—
(a)

the provision of credit by him, or
(b)

otherwise his being a creditor,

under regulated consumer credit agreements

Now that is clear, yes? a licence is required to carry on a consumer credit business and the definition covers "Otherwise his being a creditor"

So, is an assignee a creditor? Well yes, Jones v Link tells us so. but for completeness lets look at the definition of CREDITOR under the CCA!!

"creditor ” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor;

Now i cant read the above to mean anything other than, if Cabot are the assignee of a regulated consumer credit agreement, then they are the creditor and therefore they must be licenced.

I cannot see how Cabot could be argued as not being the creditor when if i make a s78(1) request to them, they as my creditor would have a duty to comply, you cant fall in and out of the law as and when you feel fit!!!!