EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

[leclerc]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Lets take the ECHR out of the debate we could as a civilised country have our own CHR if we are out we need an argument based on what we will have after the poll whichever way it goes we could have endless cases from the past put into the debate but that's done with.

Its what we expect in the future that matters IMO we as a Country must have control over our Political decisions by an elected parliament not from an unelected bunch of politicians many of which are anti British and have their own agendas

If we get out of our head that we can have our own court of human rights then maybe we can understand that the ECHR is NOT an institution of the EU. The UK were a signatory of the ECHR and helped set it up unlike the EEC forerunner to the EU.

Here is the fact check for the ECHR: https://fullfact.org/law/uks-record-human-rights-cases/

There is also a weblog which suggests that 100,000 cases on family law were simply being held up so that they were out of time ie beyond time for consideration simply sitting in a room in Strasburg unheard.

For those voting in, please explain to me the benefits of unfettered migration of EU members to the UK? DO we have the right to deport an EU national who commits a crime in the UK?

Where are the jobs going from if we leave?

[enaid]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Where are the jobs going from if we leave?

That's something at top of my list too, if they can state numbers they should state how and where the numbers come from.

[MIKE770]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

No EU farm subsidies gone - price of food up???????????

[wales01man]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Farmers get subsidies so the supermarkets get more profit if we could see the profit on farm produce meat and veg and grain for flour we would see who in effect receives the subsidy.

[Openlaw15]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

IMHO and many more it, should not even be an issue
Someone comes here to earn a better living than he can in his homeland, no problem with that whatsoever. Keeping his kids out of our funds is totally not on and don't care what anyone says. Even more so when kids born and bred here are being kept alive by charities.

I don't begrudge a hard working Polish man for example working hard in England and being entitled to child benefit under law if other national workers' children have such benefits. If his children are not in the UK I equally have no problem them sending his children's benefit back to Poland (his home) if that's where his children are living.

[Openlaw15]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

That's something at top of my list too, if they can state numbers they should state how and where the numbers come from.

If there is no EU it means UK companies cannot have sister companies in the EU to benefit the UK economy, meaning there are no services being transferred from Rome to England for example. Products will be more expensive too as under EU law they're not subject to import and export taxes.

[MIKE770]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

child allowance - been there - if child born outside EU they get nothing and I was British living in the UK, and fighting Thatchers government for right of family unity (UN Directive which Thatcher finally signed after being the 2nd last to sign after a fuss), no info given thru normal channels about registering child should they arrive in the UK and get it from day one, but luckily MP was also a Barrister who informed me to register before child arrives, court case won after tribunal cases, etc., eventually and child arrives with Mother and then only then paid from time stepped on UK soil, but EU children get it regardless, another Tory legislation against the British public, one of many if anybody but investigated,

[PAWS]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

My biggest fear is that the xenophobic press such as the Mail and the Express have convinced too many people we are being smothered in freeloading criminals who are allowed to ramble across Europe and strike their tents in this land of milk and honey. Headlines are cleverly worded to imply that every government funding deficit, every epidemic and every violent crime is due to lax border controls in Mediterranean countries and ‘soft’ European legislation on emigration. The UK is portrayed as a bullied member that has no choice but to accept the effluent of mainland Europe.
For heaven’s sake –if we vote to leave let it be for the right reasons and not through ignorant hatred of anyone with a slightly different accent!
The UK has a very strong voice in Europe. The UK is allowed to vote for or against European legislation. WE HELP TO FORMULATE, CONTRIBUTE OPINION AND ARE ALLOWED TO VOTE ON THE VERY RULES AND REGULATIONS WE SEEM TO FEEL ARE ‘IMPOSED’ UPON US.
Yes it costs us millions of Government / taxpayers money to remain in the EU but the amount of trade and investment that allows us to take advantage of cannot and should not be underestimated! In other words we get it back, every day through foreign investment and trade. Millions of pounds in salaries are a direct result of investment from and trade with other EU countries.
There is no point in raking over the many disadvantages of leaving the EU –just talk to any business that relies on EU trade or investment or speak to a farmer. They get subsidies when there is no market for their produce. The supermarkets squeeze them into providing food at cost.
What I would like to know is how much better will we feel when we stop being a part of the European Union and become the 51^st state of the US?
Oh, and no – we cannot trust the legal system in this country. We have to have a higher court to turn to especially when we are fighting a case where the very government and legal system itself is in the dock.

[Noah]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Leclerc
I was not suggesting that you did not understand the difference , if it came across that was i am sorry

I was suggesting that there are far too many people and that includes on this forum who really do need to get an education, I don't think I need to name anyone.

I do find it utterly hypocritical that social democratic countries within the EU demand neo liberal monetarist policies from the likes of Greece for the bail out , it makes no sense. If they believe that a social democrat type policy will work for them why do they push the likes of Greece in a right wing direction.

Then we get the rise of the right in parts of Europe, wouldn't you think that Poland would know what damage racist and bigoted policies can do to a country

It still depresses me that all people think about is what is best for them, what puts most money in their pocket and sod every one else. They do not seem to care if their neighbour is evicted and made homeless, not being paid a living wage , not having any liberties just so long as they are ok .

Are these same people going to turn a blind eye when these same neighbours are deported and their possessions distributed, will it matter so long as the trains run on time and they have more money in their pockets

For those who don't recognise what i am talking about I suggest a quick history lesson. I am more than happy to oblige

[Amethyst]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Personally I don't know anyone who thinks that way Noah, but maybe I only know nice people.

It still depresses me that all people think about is what is best for them, what puts most money in their pocket and sod every one else. They do not seem to care if their neighbour is evicted and made homeless, not being paid a living wage , not having any liberties just so long as they are ok .

[wales01man]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Please someone who wants to stay in tell me what advantage staying in will have for me retired small pension in social housing with a disabled wife?

As there is no answer to my question if we stay in can anyone anwers the same question if we fet out?
All I hear and read in the media is about benefits for migrants and advantages for the financial sector nothing on how us mere mortals will gain or lose after the vote decides in or out

[EXC]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

As there is no answer to my question if we stay in can anyone anwers the same question if we fet out?

I doubt they can and that's the worrying thing isn't it?

There's a massive information vacuum on the pros & cons of staying or leaving. As demonstrated here the average British citizen hasn't really got a clue what the facts are and is reliant on a biased media, biased politicians and biased campaign groups none of which can be relied upon to provide impartial factual information.

Yet in his wisdom David Cameron wants a referendum which leaves it to the British public (a group least equiped to make an informed decision) to decide and for me that's a real concern.

[MIKE770]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

As there is no answer to my question if we stay in can anyone anwers the same question if we fet out?
All I hear and read in the media is about benefits for migrants and advantages for the financial sector nothing on how us mere mortals will gain or lose after the vote decides in or out

Nothing will change??? history was full of promises and after a few days we did not mean now?

= Taken from 70+ years of living the lies!

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I doubt they can and that's the worrying thing isn't it?

There's a massive information vacuum on the pros & cons of staying or leaving. As demonstrated here the average British citizen hasn't really got a clue what the facts are and is reliant on a biased media, biased politicians and biased campaign groups none of which can be relied upon to provide impartial factual information.

Yet in his wisdom David Cameron wants a referendum which leaves it to the British public (a group least equiped to make an informed decision) to decide and for me that's a real concern.

Sums up what I have been saying for years!

[enaid]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

I don't think the general public are the only ones who do not know what will happen if we leave or stay in the EU.
All of it is smoke screens and scaremongering imho, what ever statements are being made are not backed up with facts, either they wont or cant produce the facts either way it's unfair to keep us in the dark.
Someone said yesterday the EU was formed to make things better for the countries in it, to help one another get by.
Well it's not working is it? some are loaded some are skint, nothing equal about that imho and it never will be.

[PAWS]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

I do believe it is up to the general voting public to decide if we leave the EU but I just wish the media would take some responsibility for explaining the pros and cons in an unbiased and clear manner –yea, I know, that will be the day!:flypig:
There is a medium sized factory I know that is hoping to receive investment from a German giant in the same industry. The German company will have a minority shareholding in the UK Company. Thanks to this foreign investment the UK company will more than double in size and will export to other EU countries especially ROI. This means more UK jobs, more money coming into the UK, more money paid in paye, more money spent on housing and other consumables and as a result more money moving about in the local economy and in Government coffers. On a larger scale and in an ideal society this should have a positive impact on all financial aspects including social welfare and if properly managed should benefit everyone including those on pensions and needing medical care. Yep, the government may not manage all this cash as we would like but without this foreign investment and free trade there would be higher unemployment and less cash coming in to the UK.
The EU is like a family and like all families it will have weaker or more vulnerable members. Greece may have had tourism but not much else especially now many Europeans travel further afield on holiday. Feta cheese and Olive oil just won’t prop up the economy but……thanks to being a member of the EU no one is actually starving in Greece in the same manner as they would in Africa. No bigger, stronger country will march in and take away her independence just because she is skint. She is protected by her stronger siblings but not spoilt or allowed to get away with any recklessness. Ireland was on her a**e a few years ago but is now, once again, climbing back into prosperity thanks to a big helping hand from the EU, especially the UK. Without this union both Greece and Ireland would be finished, devastated. Would that make us feel less ‘put upon’? To know neighbouring countries cannot afford to educate their children or provide basic health care?