EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

[Openlaw15]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

The problem is some of us were not born before the UK signed the statute, which made us a member to the EU so we really have no idea what it would mean to be out of the EU. What I do know, albeit based on my education, it seems to me to be largely a business thing. I do not think and am yet to be persuaded that the EU is a benefit to the average Joe in the UK, except for the average joes in poor countries like Poland who come here to benefit from our apparent prosperity. Who really has EU rights apart from the famers, who are supposed to be better off under the EU's Common Agricultural Policy albeit some were protesting in the large supermarkets with cows in tow, or the public workers? If we kept this 55 million a day ourselves couldn't we pay our own farmers? What about trade, is the trade benefit for the UK as a member state in the EU's market really worth 40% to our economy? The workers in the UK are unlikely to benefit directly but I can see commercial reasons for UK company's benefit although possibly consumer goods may cost more if they're coming from EU member state countries.

[Kati]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

The problem is some of us were not born before the UK signed the statute, which made us a member to the EU so we really have no idea what it would mean to be out of the EU. What I do know, albeit based on my education, it seems to me to be largely a business thing. I do not think and am yet to be persuaded that the EU is a benefit to the average Joe in the UK, except for the average joes in poor countries like Poland who come here to benefit from our apparent prosperity. Who really has EU rights apart from the famers, who are supposed to be better off under the EU's Common Agricultural Policy albeit some were protesting in the large supermarkets with cows in tow, or the public workers? If we kept this 55 million a day ourselves couldn't we pay our own farmers? What about trade, is the trade benefit for the UK as a member state in the EU's market really worth 40% to our economy? The workers in the UK are unlikely to benefit directly but I can see commercial reasons for UK company's benefit although possibly consumer goods may cost more if they're coming from EU member state countries.

My ex was a Dry Stone Waller ... there was an EU subsidy (paid to the farmer/land owner) to assist with the cost of securing his land. He worked 40+hrs a week in all weathers for less than the MinWage. That subsidy has now been cancelled ... he cannot work enough hours to earn enough to live without claiming Tax Credits :sad:

The price of keeping a Milk cow vs the price paid per pint of milk by the supermarkets has meant that most of the dairy farms (in this area) have had to close as a result. Without the subsidy, 95% of the MILK cattle in County Durham was culled :sad:

What about the help that UK benefits applicants/claimants get from the EU?? A sanction applied by the DWP can ultimately be appealed in the EU Courts ... if we leave, there is no chance of appeal that can be called non-biased!!

[Noah]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

I think that to try and remember what it was like before the joined the EEC is rather pointless if you don't mind me saying because the world is a significantly different place now than it was them.

I was wondering
For those that think we are stifled by european legislation , what legislation is it that is stifling us.

A substantial amount of legislation is employment based such as the working time directive, non discrimination, maternity pay etc . Now heres a thought for those that don't want in, if we leave and this legislation is repealed and equated to the legislation in the U.S. how will they feel when their daughter/granddaughter only gets 6 weeks unpaid leave when they have a baby, or in work sickness benefits are cut?

For those that complain about legislation costing businesses money -well much of that will still be a cost for business if we want to do trade with the EU

People are right, there is an alarming lack of understanding from the general public and that probably includes all of us on here about what exactly the change will entail. Apparently it would take about 7 years to actually leave the EU.

I think it is quite obvious which side I am on

By the way, who is aware that the yanks wanted Europe to have greater fiscal and political union back in the days of the Marshall plan in the years after WW II. The idea being , that greater cooperation would ensure peace and guess what, it has worked. They has not been another world war even if we did come seriously close to one on a couple of occasions

[wales01man]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

I think that to try and remember what it was like before the joined the EEC is rather pointless if you don't mind me saying because the world is a significantly different place now than it was them.

I was wondering
For those that think we are stifled by european legislation , what legislation is it that is stifling us.

A substantial amount of legislation is employment based such as the working time directive, non discrimination, maternity pay etc . Now heres a thought for those that don't want in, if we leave and this legislation is repealed and equated to the legislation in the U.S. how will they feel when their daughter/granddaughter only gets 6 weeks unpaid leave when they have a baby, or in work sickness benefits are cut?

For those that complain about legislation costing businesses money -well much of that will still be a cost for business if we want to do trade with the EU

People are right, there is an alarming lack of understanding from the general public and that probably includes all of us on here about what exactly the change will entail. Apparently it would take about 7 years to actually leave the EU.

I think it is quite obvious which side I am on

By the way, who is aware that the yanks wanted Europe to have greater fiscal and political union back in the days of the Marshall plan in the years after WW II. The idea being , that greater cooperation would ensure peace and guess what, it has worked. They has not been another world war even if we did come seriously close to one on a couple of occasions

Can you tell me how it will benefit me staying in?

[Noah]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Can you tell me how it will benefit me staying in?

I do not have a crystal ball so can not say on the definite benefits of staying in however
It is possible that the equalities Act would be repealed , that ensures that your wife is treated on a level playing field, this could be that shops no longer spend the money on disabled access or that services that are used would no longer be available

Do you have children who work?
If so then maybe they will lose protection and benefits and might resort in coming home to mum and dad eek!

here is a lost of some of the EU primary legislation that could be repealed

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/search.html...OM=LEGISLATION

[Amethyst]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Pretty sure the Equality Act is our own bringing together some of our old legislation and implementing some directives from the EU. Leaving the EU wouldn't mean that gets repealed - I suppose we'd have the option of ditching the bits that are in because of the EU directive ?

( still not sure if you're for staying in or for leaving Noah )

[Kati]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Pretty sure the Equality Act is our own bringing together some of our old legislation and implementing some directives from the EU. Leaving the EU wouldn't mean that gets repealed - I suppose we'd have the option of ditching the bits that are in because of the EU directive ?

( still not sure if you're for staying in or for leaving Noah )

The Equality Act might be 'our' version ... but what about the ECHR??

[wales01man]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

I strongly believe that in or out it will have f=very little effect on us peasants our masters will either way prosper .
All I would want to see is political control over us removed from Europe we elect a government tp do that

[Kati]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

WIKI LINK - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_2010

The Equality Act 2010[1] is an Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom, and has the same goals as the four major EU Equal Treatment Directives, whose provisions it mirrors and implements

[Openlaw15]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

I think that to try and remember what it was like before the joined the EEC is rather pointless if you don't mind me saying because the world is a significantly different place now than it was them.

I was wondering
For those that think we are stifled by european legislation , what legislation is it that is stifling us.

A substantial amount of legislation is employment based such as the working time directive, non discrimination, maternity pay etc . Now heres a thought for those that don't want in, if we leave and this legislation is repealed and equated to the legislation in the U.S. how will they feel when their daughter/granddaughter only gets 6 weeks unpaid leave when they have a baby, or in work sickness benefits are cut?

For those that complain about legislation costing businesses money -well much of that will still be a cost for business if we want to do trade with the EU

People are right, there is an alarming lack of understanding from the general public and that probably includes all of us on here about what exactly the change will entail. Apparently it would take about 7 years to actually leave the EU.

I think it is quite obvious which side I am on

By the way, who is aware that the yanks wanted Europe to have greater fiscal and political union back in the days of the Marshall plan in the years after WW II. The idea being , that greater cooperation would ensure peace and guess what, it has worked. They has not been another world war even if we did come seriously close to one on a couple of occasions

The thing about law in the modern world it's unlikely to change as it part of case law now....the UK has come along way and it is very unlikely to go backwards. Discrimination in terms of EU relates to EU more so than UK law, EU law may have been influential, but where we are now is it really worth the millions a day we pay for it, is the question. People are begging in food queues at the food banks but yet we're paying 55 million a day minus what we're alleged to get back, and apparently we're paying the international creditors 120 million a day, according to Osbourne, which is why the cuts were so savage even though that could have ended up with the economy crashing all together.

[Kati]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

The thing about law in the modern world it's unlikely to change as it part of case law now....the UK has come along way and it is very unlikely to go backwards. Discrimination in terms of EU relates to EU more so than UK law, EU law may have been influential, but where we are now is it really worth the millions a day we pay for it, is the question. People are begging in food queues at the food banks but yet we're paying 55 million a day minus what we're alleged to get back, and apparently we're paying the international creditors 120 million a day, according to Osbourne, which is why the cuts were so savage even though that could have ended up with the economy crashing all together.

so ... are you (personally) FOR or AGAINST the EU :noidea:

xx

[Noah]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Ok
For the record I think anyone who thinks we are better out than in needs their bumps felt. ( that means they are mad)

Kati
ECHR has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU but I think you might have been saying that

As for the equality act, many parts of it are because of EU legislation and while there is no guarantee that it would be changed if we left, the whole argument of those muppets who want to leave is that they do not like the EU regulations and it would seem logical that over time these things would go.

Does that make sense?

[Openlaw15]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

WIKI LINK - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_2010

The material difference is that Equality law is not binding as there are so many exceptions but EU is binding on UK courts.

[wales01man]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Ok
For the record I think anyone who thinks we are better out than in needs their bumps felt. ( that means they are mad)

Kati
ECHR has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU but I think you might have been saying that

As for the equality act, many parts of it are because of EU legislation and while there is no guarantee that it would be changed if we left, the whole argument of those muppets who want to leave is that they do not like the EU regulations and it would seem logical that over time these things would go.

Does that make sense?

So we who want out are mad thanks mate im off to the institution later

[Noah]

Re: EU: - IN or OUT ?? and WHY ??

Actually

Something to add based on what OpenLaw has said
It is possible and even probable that we have cheaper access to loans as a member of the EU because should we go belly up we have our trading partners to bail us out. It wouldn't take much of an increase in interest rates to wipe out anything