OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

[davidl]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

does anyone know what is actually going on at the moment with this issue, When i look through the boards and the customer action sites there is lots of dribble about this and that but no real info. Is that just the case that knowone knows or am i looking in the wrong place?

[ed.]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Dribble?

What I do in private is nobodies business but my own!

As for the question, I don't think anyone would consider it sensible to formulate plans in the wide open and arguments need a little time to prepare, and there are lots of reading material to be gone through to make them as water tight as we can.

MSE have paid a barrister to draft new templates and they aren't expected to be out for another fortnight at least, some of us don't have those resources unfortunately so have to do it ourselves and I already know there are two variants of response letters to banks rejecting claims as well as other things in the pipeline as matters of urgency.

Short of that there's nowt much I can say.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

That is kinda the message that is going out, ie at the moment, the concentration is on those who have claims about to lifted NOW rather than3,6 or even 12 months in the future.
Davidl because nothing is being openly said does not mean that nothing is being discussed but the concentration is on those who are in court in the near present until such time as the learned QC has given something to work on which is not going to be for a few weeks, unfortunately. We are all working hard behind the scenes though on various things related to reclaiming/hardship issues.

[EXC]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Had this belated response from the Judicial Communications Office to my enquiry of 15 December.

Is there anything else we need to ask her now we've got her ear Ame?

Quite why they think the credit card/CCA judgment is ''in a related area'' I don't know. But interestingly the judgment has the OFT down as an ''Intervening party'' and when we spoke to them on the morning of their announcement they cited this case as an example of their willingness to give evidence on behalf of consumers in cases involving multiple claimants in which they have regulatory jurisdiction over and that they would consider doing the same in any future bank charge cases.



----- Original Message -----
From: Fernandes, Helen (DJO - JCO)
To: EXC
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: Bank Charges Line



Dear Nick,

Sorry for not replying to your email sooner - I have been on annual leave until today so I'm not sure of you contacted any of my colleagues in my absence?

In reply to you query, as of 29 November 2009, the JCO line is:

"The judgment is quite lengthy and the parties to proceedings currently pending before the courts will no doubt require time to consider its implications for their own cases. Where proceedings have been stayed it is for the parties in the first instance to consider what steps to take in the light of the judgment and, if they think it appropriate, to apply to have the stay lifted and for any further orders. Now that the legal position has been clarified it may be that the parties can reach agreement on what steps should be taken. If they cannot, applications will have to be made to the court. Judges will consider such applications individually and make whatever orders they consider are appropriate in the case before them."


The OFT has now issued its revised guidance - http://www.oft.gov.uk/news/press/2009/144-09 - which indicates that they are not taking any more legal steps at this stage.

Additionally, there is no material development in this line, and no new guidance has been issued by the senior judiciary, although there has been a High Court judgment in a related area - http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/jud...rey-v-hsbc.pdf which may be of interest.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Helen

[ed.]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

That Judgement has absolutely nothing to do with bank charges, it's S78 compliance??? Unless realising as part of Beagles, she did just genuinely think it may have been missed by folks?

[davidl]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

ED.

So you say mse will be knocking out new template letters that should be fun i for 1 will be getting my letter in strait away nothing to loose now is there.

[ed.]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

The latest announcement from Lewis is 3rd of January although they should've been out by now on original timescales.

If you don't have a live claim, I wouldn't recommend starting a new claim just yet. Let the dust settle and let's deal with the claims that will be unstayed before fresh claims go in mate. Any template will have to be tweaked to suit the individual's circumstances and should the day of settlements return, it won't be happening in Feb or March I suspect.

So don't just rush ahead the second they are launched. I'm working on a revised POC, I know others are aswell, and I suspect they'll be a lot we can add to the MSE POC's to strengthen them, although obviously they should be well grounded and give us a good start (some confidence if we've already come up with the same arguments as non barristers etc).

But definitely don't fire it off the morning they are launched.

[davidl]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

ED.

Im not going to lie to you all im interested is a refund (probably speaking for everyone there) as the oft and goverment will sort out future charges so with abit of luck mse will knock out the new template letters and we can all get some goodwill gestures from our banks as i belive if you dont get in there early the banks will get so many complaints it would need to go to another test case again and i for one cant be arsed for another 2 year wait.

[EXC]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

It doesn't matter which forum it is on and perhaps it is the information that is contained that is what you have to read.

As I said at the time, I was checking it and have an email from Plymouth County Court CONFIRMING 12 month stays

"Further to your e-mail, the current instruction is to stay all claims for a further 12 months and we have had no further guidance regarding the OFT announcement."

I do make additional checks where information is made on the forum.

I've spoken to Claims & Listings at Plymouth County Court and they confirmed my suspicion that the 12 month stay was their position prior to the OFT annoucement and now that has been made they are expecting further guidance from the judge ''any day now'' - and this is the guidance that they refer to in your e-mail.

[ed.]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Well look at it the other way. The Banks have just spent millions defending the first round, they aren't going to suddenly jump to settlements again just because of and general Reg 5 and S140 angled argument.

I think they are going to fight like........to stop anybody getting a head of steam again. Ultimately your choice, but for what it's worth if you aren't preparing your own claim and are waiting for a template that will still have to be individually tweaked to give you the best shot, then in your shoes I'd give it a bit and see what those who are working in the background think of the templates and wait for them to introduce the changes and additions they'd feel more comfortable advising people use.

With the greatest of respect MSE's templates were never that good to begin with and neither Lewis nor Cox QC will have lived, searched and debated every paragraph of the Test Case (transcripts included) like many others have.

Whatever happens with their new templates they will focus on Reg 5 and S140 and I doubt anything else, although I'm hoping to be surprised - I will not be walking back into Court and refiling with just those arguments alone.

As said, it's your choice - but if you've waited this long, I don't think waiting a month for tweaking and/or possible further clues by the initial defences that come in would be much of a problem matey.

[Amethyst]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

CCA test cases are relevant as they discuss sec 140 and unfair relationship

Advice is going on Banks Charges complaints with Financial Ombudsman or Banks - next steps - Legal Beagles and Bank Charge Claims in Courts System - next steps - Legal Beagles for claimants and we have POCs to use in the urgent cases which need amending now. If people have URGENT cases we can help but what everyone needs to realise now is the claims will need to be very individualised for each bank and claimants different situation. Ie. its not just a send a letter off get ur money back situation anymore, its a lot of work and commitment needed and a risk of costs.

[davidl]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

ED.

I fully understand what your saying but if the banks fight it then my complaint will only land on the OFT/FSA's doorstep and let them sort out the mess i myself would not bother with the courts, as if the banks dont deal with it then i would like to see the oft sort out the mess they got us all in in the first place.

And looking back on the previous template letter as you said they were pants so myself i wouldnt be to worried about putting "great" detail into any future template.

[ed.]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

The OFT/FSA would have nothing to do with anything now - although if you aren't thinking of firing to Court it is safer.

And you need to be worried about putting the detail in now - regardless of whether you go to Court or the FOS because without the detail, and without personalising it you definitely won't stand a chance mate. See what Ame put.

Just step back for a bit, another month in the grand scheme of things won't matter. You shoot straight to the FOS when they are launched, if they turn you down you can't suddenly go back the week after if LB add an extra bit in and so on.

[Amethyst]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Also, MSE have NOT said templates will be released third week of Jan.

They have said

''Following the 22 Dec 09 announcement by the OFT that it doesn't intend to continue the fight, we're looking at publishing direct guidance of consumers' options by the second or third week of January.''

[EXC]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Indeed Ame.

And just to repeat what I said on the day of the Supreme Court judgment..

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