OFT Test Case on Bank Charges ......from House of Lords to Supreme Court

[Budgie]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

I agree, I don't think Robert was contradicting, he just wasn't very forthcoming.
Basically, because I don't think he knows anything.

I suspect we may get a bit more information on Monday when Sian returns from her holiday.

There can't be very many more days before Xmas when it can be possible to schedule in a handing down, don't forget we are rapidly approaching Xmas party season and I am sure that all the Bankers and QC's who would be required to attend the judgment will also be extremely busy getting their Xmas shopping organised!!!!!!

Seriously, I am pretty sure that the Lords are fully aware of the importance of this judgment and the need to make it public at the earliest opportunity.

[EXC]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

There can't be very many more days before Xmas when it can be possible to schedule in a handing down, don't forget we are rapidly approaching Xmas party season and I am sure that all the Bankers and QC's who would be required to attend the judgment will also be extremely busy getting their Xmas shopping organised!!!!!!

I don't think we'll see any bankers or QCs as there is no reason for them to attend because they can't appeal. From memory the only time they showed up for a judgment was the first J Smith one to seek leave to appeal on Plain Intelligible Language (on the grounds that it would cost them a lot of money!)

So they can get on with their Christmas shopping uninterrupted. Although with the likelihood of a defeat and no related bonus lets hope they'll be having to steer clear of Fortnums in favour of Poundstretcher.

[Budgie]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

Of course there may not actually be a hearing scheduled to hand down the judgment.

It may just be published.

Supreme Court rules do allow this !

Judgment

28. A judgment may be—
(a) delivered in open court; or
(b) if the Court so directs, promulgated by the Registrar.




Also, Whilst it is true that neither the Banks nor the OFT can appeal directly to the ECJ, either party may of course appeal the Supreme Court Judgment to the Supreme Court and request a reference under article 234 to the European Court of Justice. The Supreme Court can either agree or disagree with any such request.


This is why the following appears in the Supreme Court rules :-


Court of Justice of the European Communities

42.—(1) Where it is contended on an application for permission to appeal that it raises a question of Community law which should be the subject of a reference under Article 234 of the Treaty establishing the European Community and permission to appeal is refused, the panel of Justices will give brief reasons for its decision.
(2) Where on an application for permission to appeal a panel of Justices decides to make a reference under Article 234 before determining the application, it will give consequential directions as to the form of the reference and the staying of the application (but it may if it thinks fit dispose of other parts of the application at once).
(3) Where at the hearing of an appeal the Court decides to make a reference under Article 234 it will give consequential directions as to the form of the reference and the staying of the appeal (but it may if it thinks fit dispose of other parts of the appeal at once).
(4) An order of the Court shall be prepared and sealed by the Registrar to record any decision made under this rule.




Supreme Court Rules The Supreme Court Rules 2009 No. 1603 (L. 17)

[ROBSTER]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

How do you mean Robster?

I'm not sure what they told Budgie contradicts what they told you as far as I can see.

Thats true, we will see on Monday.

[EXC]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

I'm not entirely convinced that the appeal criteria applies to all Supreme Court cases that turn in some way on EU legislation.

Apart from anything else the hearing transcripts make no mention of a possible appeal of a Supreme Court judgment - only a 'reference'. And of course a reference, in the context of the appeal procedures you posted must be a result of an appeal application to the SC.

Also the brief info I got from back from the SC on the appeal/reference question really needs to be seen in the context in which I asked the question:




I'd be grateful for you help with two queries with regard to the case of OFT v Abbey National currently awaiting judgment.

Firstly the case summary and full case details for this case do not appear in the 'Current Cases' section of the Supreme Court Website. Can they be made available to me?

Secondly a procedural question. On conclusion of appeal hearing Lord Phillips indicated that judgment will be made in due course, subject to a reference to the ECJ. Can only the court refer the case to Europe or in the case that the Supreme Court hand down a judgment, does either party in the case have the right to seek leave to appeal to the European Court of Justice?

Thank you for your enquiry.

Unfortunately we are unable to provide you with the details of the case summary as requested because this was heard in the House of Lords. With regards to your second question, it is courts which make references to the ECJ, the parties do not appeal to the ECJ.

I hope this helps.

In ''seeking leave to appeal'' to the ECJ it would clearly be made to the SC and although the answer wasn't very clear, the response was more negative than positive I reckon.

Anyway let's draft a concise response and get clarification.

[AndyJJ]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

So what did Robert mean when he said to me yesterday "there will be an announcement within the next few days”?

I qualified this by saying "so it will be days, not weeks"

And he said "yes"?

It isn’t a huge issue in the big scheme of things but some consistency from SC would be nice.

So it could be in 14 days, rather than 2 weeks.

[ROBSTER]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

So it could be in 14 days, rather than 2 weeks.

half a month or a fortnight......if not sooner, before or after.

LOL:beagle:

[EXC]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

If you're keeping an eye on the Supreme Court website for the judgment date http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/docs/cl_michaelmasV3.pdf and can only see a couple of 'free days' it's worth a reminder that Sian from the press office said that the judgment date can be scheduled for any day regardless of the days on which hearings and other judgments are booked in for because the handing down of the judgment ''will only take a couple of minutes''.

The previous appeal judgment in the Court of Appeal was scheduled for and handed down out of normal court business hours and took all of 3 minutes from start to finish.

[enaid]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

[quote=EXC;136928]

The previous appeal judgment in the Court of Appeal was scheduled for and handed down out of normal court business hours and took all of 3 minutes from start to finish.[/quote

Very typical of something so important to be over so quickly, must be a male thing LOL

[ROBSTER]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

[QUOTE=enaid;136929]

The previous appeal judgment in the Court of Appeal was scheduled for and handed down out of normal court business hours and took all of 3 minutes from start to finish.[/quote

Very typical of something so important to be over so quickly, must be a male thing LOL

Hey thats not fair, i myself nearly beat my three minute all time star studded record last night....only missed it by 120 seconds !!!

[Tools]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

I remember being at the 3 minute Judgement, then the mad dash back to the LB "bunker" with Amethyst to get it up on the site asap.

[Sapphire]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

Well I was planning on attending this time, but I am damn sure I'm not hanging around for anyone who only lasts 3 minutes.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

It took longer than 3 minutes to get a copy of the judgement and say hello to a few people and take photos outside the Court of Appeal.

[EXC]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

Well I was planning on attending this time, but I am damn sure I'm not hanging around for anyone who only lasts 3 minutes.

If you possibly can, go.

If the 3 minute Court of Appeal judgment hearing was anything to go by it'll be an experience you'll never forget.

[TUTTSI]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

I went twice to the earlier hearings with Justice Smith and it was definately an experience worth going to, just knowing that this was such an important case and being involved was something I will not forget.

If you possibly can, go.

If the 3 minute Court of Appeal judgment hearing was anything to go by it'll be an experience you'll never forget.