Sixt van hire scam

[Minxi]

Er ... thanks guys!

I take it then that I should not respond to the above, but wait until the

BIG SCARY RED LETTER

arrives?

[des8]

No point in writing again, unless you enjoy letter tennis!

[Minxi]

DES8

Yeah. I don't. Leaving it this time.

Cheers
Minx

[Minxi]

DES8

Well I didn't leave it actually, as I wanted to find out more about this debt collector of theirs. So I banged one off. There might be something useful in what they say:

US:

The matter remains in dispute as far as we are concerned, and we note your continued reluctance to engage with us as to quantum of loss.

As a matter of interest, when you say you will be 'forced' to 'escalate' the claim to a third party, do you mean that you will pass the case to a separate office which is nevertheless located for business purposes WITHIN Sixt Group, or do you mean that you will sell the 'debt' to an independent firm used but not owned by Sixt Group?

If you could be very clear in your response we would be grateful.

THEM:

The matter is in dispute you are correct, but there is only a certain length that we can go to when dealing with a dispute. We have offered to reduce the claim, gave you an opportunity to produce a like for like quote which is within the means of our terms and conditions and this has still not been able to be resolved. We have also offered you an instalment plan in my previous email alongside the reduced settlement figure and that request has not been fulfilled. We are running out of options with how to deal with your dispute, other than passing this to our legal department who will attempt to resolve the claim with yourself. I fail to see how we have failed to engage with yourself, we have given you enough opportunities to pay and offered you three alternative ways to pay, as you raised a dispute but to date, you have failed to accept any of them.

To be clearer, the legal department is a third party collections agency. Not owned by SIXT group, but working alongside SIXT. If necessary, they will take legal action to recover the funds.

I will reiterate our stance one final time:

1. Either you can provide a like for like report from an insured garage, not a SMART repair, and we can adjust our charges according to this.
2. We can agree to settle the claim at 400GBP.
3. We can offer you an instalment plan of 4 payments of 100GBP to cover the costs of damage.

US:

Thank you for agreeing that we are still in dispute.

Your mail is clear-er as to your intentions, but not totally clear: are you SELLING the debt to this third party company, and closing and ridding yourselves of the (number erased) case without resolution? Would we be forced to deal with this company and not Sixt Damage?

Regarding your failure to engage, our previous IS clear on the matter.

1) As we have said, your 'damage assessment' and invoice does not relate to damage allegedly caused.
2) We would not settle whilst still in dispute.
3) Instalment plans are not the point, whereas resolution is.

(ends)

So dunno if they are selling the debt or not at the moment.

Cheers
Minxi

[des8]

You are getting good at letter tennis!
It can become an amusing game

[Minxi]

[Minxi]

DES8

See below. If there's anything I need to say please let me know, or I'll just leave it.

Just briefly, what can I expect the process to be, moving forward?

No, we are not selling the debt, they are our partner. We still have the file on our records, however SIXT would no longer be dealing with the case. All correspondence would have to be with the legal partner. I have to warn you also, the legal partner will be chasing for the full debt cost plus legal fees.

I have given you the options for resolution, please take time to think over them. If you are unable to resolve the claim by 02.09.2019 with the options presented to you in my previous emails, we will escalate the claim to our collections agency to recover on our behalf and start legal proceedings if necessary.

Cheers
Minxi

[des8]

I wouldn't bother responding, but wait for the letter from the DCA.
Then write within 30 days to DCA telling them the debt is in dispute.

Once you dispute the debt, the DCA shouldn't you to collect the debt until they have provided verification of the debt in writing to you
and you can continue the letter tennis!

[Minxi]

DES8

First scary letter has arrived from 'Sixt partner' Flint Bishop Solicitors, a certain Kelly Savage (scary) being the contact. There is an email address.

FYI Sixt Customer Services has still not responded to the complaint about their behaviour in this matter which was sent to them (via the almost useless Resolver) approximately 10 weeks ago. When Sixt finally replies, depending on outcome, I intend to escalate the complaint to the BVRLA, so quite possibly until the outcome of that I won't be in a position to 'help' Messrs Flint Bishop. Here goes:

Dear Sirs

Our client: Sixt Rent A Car Ltd
Balance due: £599.80

We are instructed to act on behalf of Sixt Rent A Car Ltd ("our client") in order to recover losses resulting from an incident that occurred on or around 09 May 2017.

Background

On 08 May 2017 you entered into a rental agreement with our client ("the Rental Agreement") for the hire of a Renault Master, registration number XXXX XXX ("the Vehicle"). The Rental Agreement provided for the rental of the Vehicle for the period of 08 May 2017 to 09 May 2017 ("the Rental Period"). By entering into the Rental Agreement, you agreed to be bound by our client's terms and conditions ("the T&Cs").

Damage

During your Rental Period, the vehicle was involved in an incident which caused damage to our client's vehicle ("the Damage"). This Damage was noted by our client upon return of the vehicle at the end of your Rental Period.

Upon assessment by a qualified expert, it has been determined that the Vehicle was repairable. The expert's estimate for the reasonable costs of repairing the Damage was determined and calculated as £509.80.

Pursuant to our client's terms and conditions, you are liable to compensate our client for their losses up to the value of the damage excess ("the Excess") as noted on your Rental Agreement. Your Rental Agreement states that your damage excess is £1,000.

We understand that our client has previously demanded payment in respect of the Damage up to the value of your Excess and their administration charge by way of an invoice dated 25 May 2017.

Payment

Our client has informed us that payment has not been forthcoming. Accordingly, our client reserves the rights, including the right to commence court proceedings to obtain a Court Judgement requiring you to pay the balance due plus interest and further costs.

In order to avoid further action being taken, please ensure payment of the Balance Due is made within 7 days of this letter.

Ignoring this letter may lead to our client commencing court proceedings against you and may increase your liability for costs.

Payment should be made direct to this office and not to our client. Any queries should also be made directly to Flint Bishop LLP by calling 01332 XXXXXX (bank details follow).

We look forward to receiving payment from you within 7 days. (ends)

What to do?

[des8]

Write to them advising that the claim is in dispute.
Give them your reasons for disputing the claim

Letter tennis..second set

[R0b]

Sorry to chime in Des.. if you are going to play letter tennis, might be worth stating that their letter before action is not compliant with the pre-action protocols for debt claims? Could delay things by suggesting that until such a time they comply with the relevant protocols, you don't feel the need to provide any substantive response.

You could also threaten yourself to make an application to ask the court to stay proceedings due to non-compliance of the Debt Protocol and costs to be awarded at against their client's, since their solicitor's ought to to be fully aware that the Debt Protocol applies yet failed in all respects to comply.

[des8]

Thanks for input R0b but was their letter intended to be an LBA?
I just read it as the normal threatening type letter from a DCA.

K.S's appearance lives up to her name

[R0b]

Personally, I would say it's an LBA since it has all the hallmarks of one - the background, the alleged breached, the debt amount required to discharge the liability and what will happen if no payment is made e.g. they say in order to prevent further action, payment to be made within 7 days and ignoring the letter may lead to commencing legal proceedings.

If, however, they make out that it's not a letter before action but merely a debt collection letter, then in my mind the letter is worded in such a way to suggest the next step is legal proceedings and that could be contrary to Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regs as an aggressive commercial practice and probably reportable to the SRA for misleading third parties as to their capacity in which they act.

Fine line between the two but a general impression from Joe Public would be that the instruction of solicitors writing to someone would infer that legal proceedings are contemplated and/or imminent and of course, an LBA doesn't need to specifically state it's an LBA

[Minxi]

DES8

ROB

Thank you for your input guys, which is most learned.

Whilst it is possibly TOO learned for a punter such as me, the gist I'm getting is that a straight debt collection letter can't masquerade as an LBA, as this would breach trading standards (for example), and they could be reported to SRA for sending it. On the other hand, if it IS an LBA, it hasn't followed certain protocols correctly and is, again, in some sort of breach.

If it helps, Sixt Damage said this in an earlier email exchange about the so-called 'third party' (my bold type):

To be clearer, the legal department is a third party collections agency. Not owned by SIXT group, but working alongside SIXT. If necessary, they will take legal action to recover the funds.

Cheers
Minx

[R0b]

Well that is simply my interpretation of the letter. The fact that they've set a deadline before further action may be commenced is, in my opnion, indicative of a letter before action.

If I were in the position, I would be treating the letter as an LBA and make it clear you consider the letter to be one following that up with some commentary about how the LBA is not compliant with the pre-action protocols for debt claims, so any issuing of legal proceedings will be premature until compliance is met - you can then go on to threaten costs against their client if they don't comply. Naturally, if they don;t believe it to be an LBA then they will state it's not an one, rather it is a demand for payment in which case you know where you lie and you can deal with it accordingly.

Or you can just keep it short and sweet.

Not that it really matters too much because if they are going to issue legal proceedings, they will do it anyway.