Sixt van hire scam

[Kati]

Re: Sixt van hire scam

But we do know that the long mail they can't find was definitely sent.

have you checked your email sent box ?? or the 'drafts'??

[Minxi]

Re: Sixt van hire scam

Hi Kati

Yes, it was sent when we said it was. We now have their reply:

Good morning

Thank you for your e-mail.

The complete previous damages prior to renting the vehicle will be shown on your rental contract which I assume you have to hand, this is the complete listing.

Our terms and conditions can be found online on our website - https://www.sixt.co.uk/fileadmin/sys/agb/sixt_GB_en.pdf

This vehicle estimate was generated by pro-forma. This uses an independent firm to inspect and report damage, the work carried out is in line with Thatcham Guidelines which is industry standard. If you wished to take the vehicle you would need to rent it again. However you can obtain estimates via photographs.

Best regards

Dan Roberts

Senior Claims Agent

So we said:

Good evening

Thank you for your email, and for the link to your Ts&Cs.

However, there are one or two things we need to talk about further.

First, in our previous email, we ask for the complete list of pre-existing damage. You say that this was provided at the time of hire, but we can see very clearly from the information in our possession that this is not so. Therefore, with respect, we need to ask you once again: please provide the unexpurgated list of damage events existing prior to our agreement with Sixt.

Second, with regard to pro-formas and Thatcham guidelines, this information, whilst it may be of interest in some ways, does not provide any answer to our question. So, again, we need to refer you back to our original email, in which we ask for a complete and detailed explanation of how the vehicle was assessed for alleged damage caused.

FYI the original email is contained in this thread. We feel that the questions in it are properly laid out. However, if there is anything in it that requires explication, please advise, and we will do our best to assist.

Again, many thanks for your latest response. We look forward to hearing from you again shortly.

[Minxi]

Re: Sixt van hire scam

Hello all

Sixt just sent a court threat letter:

Further to our previous correspondence regarding the above claim we still do not appear to have received settlement of our claim.

Immediate payment in the sum of 599,80 GBP plus 16,00 GBP late payment penalty is requested.

If you wish to make a payment direct to the bank details of our bank account can be found below.

Failure to respond to this letter by 12.07.2017 will result in instructions to our solicitors to commence legal proceedings. This will include a claim for costs and interest at 8% per annum, which is applicable under section 69 of the county courts act 1984.

Yours faithfully
Ravjot Sagoo
Claims department
Tel. : +44 (0) 1246 50 6264

They are still refusing (I guess, or otherwise ignoring) to answer the questions we asked about how they've assessed the vehicle for damage, and why we were given an incomplete list of previous damage before we hired the van. They did send Ts&Cs however, so not all bad. Therefore we have sent this reply:

Dear Ms Sagoo/ Sixt Team

We are unable to move forward in this matter without full answers to our questions, which were provided in our previous email, and subsequent follow-up email. We are aware that you have received both.

We would therefore be grateful if you would refer back to these and answer our completely justified and reasonable questions fully and properly, as we have requested.

If we may just say, we would appreciate your swift and full response with reference to the matters at hand, rather than having to see again unrequested copies of your previously sent documents, and now threats of court action which, given your reluctance to respond, we regard as straightforward harrassment.

Do Legal Beagles have any advice for us at this stage?

[des8]

Re: Sixt van hire scam

Just carry on as you are.
Threats can be ignored, actual court papers no.

If they get a solicitor involved, do not panic.
Any claim would be allocated to the small claims track, and costs there are very limited.
If they employ a solicitor to argue their case in court they will be out of pocket, even if they win, (so unlikely, although you may receive the odd threatening letter)

Further they are already in breach of the pre action protocols which require them, among other things, to ensure that both parties obtain all the information needed as soon as possible.

Failure to follow those protocols could be classed as unreasonable and have an effect on any costs award (in your favour!)

[Minxi]

Re: Sixt van hire scam

Thank you des8, much appreciated.

[Minxi]

Hi guys especially rob des8 and kati.

Here we are over a year later (15 months actually without so much as a squeak out of them) and I've just been phoned by someone at Sixt. He left a message in which he 'needed me to call' a number.

Any thoughts?

Minxi.

PS the message itself is confused. Here it is:

'Hi this is a message for (Minxi) and I need you to call me back immediately on 020 7011 8360, that's 020 7018 8360 and I need you to call 9053858408 at a matter of urgency'. As you see, the two 020 phone numbers are different, so I can't be sure which to call (the call itself came in from another number, 020 7018 8264). The third 'number' is actually the Sixt reference for the case, which I'm presumably not meant to 'call' but quote.

[Kati]

Personally I'd ignore it (and block the telephone numbers) then wait for them to contact you in writing ... do you agree des8 R0b ??

[R0b]

Ignoring and blocking the numbers might be a one way ticket to court perhaps, so I probably wouldn't recommend it as the first port of call.

You could write or email Sixt quoting your reference number and saying that you received a voicemail from someone at Sixt believing to be related to an ongoing dispute that you have with them. You could then go on to explain that you want Sixt to remove your contact telephone number from their system as you no longer give consent to be contacted that way, and that all further correspondence should only be made in writing, and if the matter is of urgency then they can contact you by email and include the contact email address.

The alternative could be to try the numbers and get through to Sixt (without giving too much info) and then explain over the phone exactly the same mentioned above. You could record the call too either through a call recording app (most if not all require you to pay a subscription) or you could put the call on loudspeaker and then record from another recording device such as another phone - note you should test this before calling Sixt. That way, you have a recording of the call and can use that as evidence should they refuse to do what you ask.

Or you could just ignore them but be aware of the risk that they could pursue you up to 6 years from the incident and so you might land yourself with a default judgment in the event that you move or refuse to correspond. I prefer to make sure that all correspondence is through email because even if you do move home, they can't be excused for not contacting you.

It could be something genuine or it could be something they want to discuss over the phone that might not be something they wish to record in writing. Always best to keep a paper trail wherever possible but if that ain't possible, record the call.

[Minxi]

Thanks all, esp Rob. Fabulous advice as usual. I sent this to Sixt in response to their call:

Good evening

Today we received a missed call and a voice message from someone at Sixt which we believe to be related to an ongoing dispute between ourselves and Sixt.

To be absolutely clear, we wish not to be contacted in this way, so please remove our telephone contact details from your records forthwith.

All future correspondence should be made in writing. If the matter is of genuine urgency, then email will suffice.

Regards
(Minxi)
Sixt customer

[Minxi]

Hi guys

Definitely seems Sixt, after 15 months, are back on the trail.

Here is the email they have sent today after I asked them not to contact me by phone. They seem to have ignored all previous correspondence and gone back to square one:

Dear customer,

Thank you for your email.

I have recieved a email from yourself advising you would like to be contacted via email?

Just to make you aware there is an outstanding balance that your are liable for the amount of £598.90. As per your rental agreement that you have signed saying you have a full understanding of our Ts&Cs, Also you have signed a pre rental inspection advising the damage are not pre exsisting.

Please get in contact with me on 0207 0118 360.

Yours faithfully
Sixt rent a car
Damage department
Email: Damage-UK@Sixt.com
Tel. : +44 (0) 207 0188 264 (Mon-Fri 08:30-17:30)

[ostell]

How many existing bits of damage were there on the hire form?

Have you made that offer of 1/31st of the damage? That would be about £20. Get that in so if they do proceed to court then you can show that you offered a contribution to your part of the admitted previous damage.

[Minxi]

Hi Ostell

Yes 31 I think. And they clearly hadn't repaired the panel at any stage, and yes they appear to want to charge me for the entire panel respray.

I'd have to make that offer without admitting that I'd done any damage however, as part of the ongoing argument I'm having with them is that they didn't list the damage in full, such that from the info you can't tell where the exact position of each scratch is (the text is incomplete). I have the docket concerned, and it's plain to see that the info isn't fully there.

Is there a form of words I can use to get around liability?

Minxi.

[Minxi]

Come to think of it Ostell, the '31 instances of damage' are over the entire vehicle, not just on the panel under discussion, so that calculation wouldn't really work.

Cheers
Minxi.

[des8]

Send the offer in a separate accompanying letter headed "WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS"

[Minxi]

Thanks Des8

There is a bit of a dilemma for me here. I've been requesting from them full descriptions of the damage as listed on the 'contract', which is basically a till receipt printout thing. It's all you get. On it, there are listed 31 instances of damage that were present BEFORE I hired the vehicle. Thing is, the descriptions are incomplete, and so I can't tell exactly where the previous damage is. Therefore, if I don't know where the pre-existing damage is, how can I admit to any alleged new damage (except by signing something proffered to me by a bullying and pushy employee who's also pressuring me by saying that I haven't filled the thing up with petrol when I have)? It's impossible, and I really think they're being devious. I won't bore you with all 31, so here are the 5 that relate to the 'centre side panel', which is the bit I'm supposed to have damaged, absolutely verbatim, with THEIR omissions:

*centre side panel: passenger side scratch > 10 cm (down t
*centre side panel: passenger side dent > 3 cm (without
*centre side panel, bot: passenger side scratch > 5-10 cm (down t
*side panel, front, cen: passenger side scratch < 5 cm (down to
*side panel, rear, cent: passenger side scratch > 10 cm (down t

And that's it. There is no proper positional info about the damage, and it's a big panel, so I can't know for sure that my alleged 'new' damage isn't already accounted for, if you see what I mean. I've asked them repeatedly for the full text, but they've just ignored the request, instead sending demands for payment and the odd threatening letter.

Do you think I have a good point here? Please advise.

Meanwhile, I'm just going to ask them again for the full damage report, which surely must exist (?), and bollock them for ignoring the whole thing for the last 15 months without so much as a squeak.

Minxi