Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

[Ssssssssss]

That’s fine and actually as it has been ordered that the expert will be paid jointly adding in the costs in the right thing to do as he can’t say you’re making up costs when it comes to that.

Lets see see what his solicitor responds with next.

So we sent that on Friday. We haven't received a response yet. Maybe one will come a bit later today but either way, we didn't get any list of experts from them on Friday as we had requested.

We also sent the Without prejudice letter last night to get to them this morning. I took a lot of your letter you drafted and sent that along with an offer. We haven't heard anything on that either yet but i guess i did only send it last night.

I'll let you know if anything changes today or tomorrow - otherwise the deadline for choosing expert is Wednesday 4pm so i guess we should draft letter to court tomorrow.

I am still writing my letter of instruction to the expert - not done one before so just trying to get it together and then send to the other side for any amendments they want to make I guess ( if they don't want to settle)

[jaguarsuk]

So we sent that on Friday. We haven't received a response yet. Maybe one will come a bit later today but either way, we didn't get any list of experts from them on Friday as we had requested.

We also sent the Without prejudice letter last night to get to them this morning. I took a lot of your letter you drafted and sent that along with an offer. We haven't heard anything on that either yet but i guess i did only send it last night.

I'll let you know if anything changes today or tomorrow - otherwise the deadline for choosing expert is Wednesday 4pm so i guess we should draft letter to court tomorrow.

I am still writing my letter of instruction to the expert - not done one before so just trying to get it together and then send to the other side for any amendments they want to make I guess ( if they don't want to settle)

Wait and see what comes, they'll probably drop the name of who they agree with on Wednesday at 3:59pm. As nothing is being sent to the court on that day it doesn't matter, you'll just send of the letter of instruction on Thursday.

Make sure you include the requirement of the court order for the report to be finalised by the specific date.

If a letter to the court is needed just post it here and we'll take a look, I doubt it will be and they'll just be as awkward as they can.

[Ssssssssss]

Wait and see what comes, they'll probably drop the name of who they agree with on Wednesday at 3:59pm. As nothing is being sent to the court on that day it doesn't matter, you'll just send of the letter of instruction on Thursday.

Make sure you include the requirement of the court order for the report to be finalised by the specific date.

If a letter to the court is needed just post it here and we'll take a look, I doubt it will be and they'll just be as awkward as they can.

OK so we got the following today from them. I did send them a copy of my proposed draft instruction last night. I've included that here as attached.
The letter and their own draft instruction they have put together is attached too.

I think they are basically trying to water down our instruction so that the expert doesn't answer our specific questions.... Also, its our schedule of issues that shows what we are complaining of. Surely any expert should be looking at that....

No reply on our without prejudice letter though and some bizarre message about letter us have a few more days to finalise the instruction letter - we aren't likely to agree theirs because we want our specific questions answered. Also -work started on 16th not 18th as they are now claiming (obviously another web of lies they are concocting).

What next ? we want our specific questions included and a directive they need to look at our schedule when writing their report...( i don't think thats NOT impartial ! )

[jaguarsuk]

Their solicitor is still being the same plank he has privately, but I don't see anything wrong with the letter to instruct they have sent.

The danger with asking specific questions is that you are leading him, as the solicitors letter states you can ask Part 15 questions later and therefore that is the point you ask those.

You left out the schedule, the solicitor has put them in, draws his attention to them as a guide, that will guide the expert to look at specific issues and report on them. He'll probably answer your questions as a result.

I'd be minded to agree to their letter, but I would point out to the solicitor you are not trying to sway the expert, but are inexperienced in these matters as Litigant in Person and he can keeps his accusations to himself.

[Ssssssssss]

Their solicitor is still being the same plank he has privately, but I don't see anything wrong with the letter to instruct they have sent.

The danger with asking specific questions is that you are leading him, as the solicitors letter states you can ask Part 15 questions later and therefore that is the point you ask those.

You left out the schedule, the solicitor has put them in, draws his attention to them as a guide, that will guide the expert to look at specific issues and report on them. He'll probably answer your questions as a result.

I'd be minded to agree to their letter, but I would point out to the solicitor you are not trying to sway the expert, but are inexperienced in these matters as Litigant in Person and he can keeps his accusations to himself.

True. Oh i thought i'd put the schedules in ? I'd just stated that their schedule should remove all pictures (they submitted those falsified pictures later in to their schedule that i told you about).

We have said the expert needs to look at our schedule which outlines the issues at fault but their solicitor has tried to remove that if i'm not mistaken...or rather, be less specific. ?? Can i tell him i want to explicitly state that the schedule outlines the allegations of faults and the expert should look at specific issues and report on them ? Their solicitor i think is trying to say that the expert won't report on each allegation and will instead do his own report on whatever he finds regardless of what we say the problems are ??

Basically, I think what we are trying to ensure if that not only visible defects and investigated, but also defects that are hidden behind tiles should also be investigated. It does itemise those in our schedule though.

[Ssssssssss]

True. Oh i thought i'd put the schedules in ? I'd just stated that their schedule should remove all pictures (they submitted those falsified pictures later in to their schedule that i told you about).

We have said the expert needs to look at our schedule which outlines the issues at fault but their solicitor has tried to remove that if i'm not mistaken...or rather, be less specific. ?? Can i tell him i want to explicitly state that the schedule outlines the allegations of faults and the expert should look at specific issues and report on them ? Their solicitor i think is trying to say that the expert won't report on each allegation and will instead do his own report on whatever he finds regardless of what we say the problems are ??

Basically, I think what we are trying to ensure if that not only visible defects and investigated, but also defects that are hidden behind tiles should also be investigated. It does itemise those in our schedule though.

Also, i was just wondering if you think he might be trying to ask us for a 4 weeks extension given he has mentioned it in his letter randomly ? Reading between the lines that is.

[Ssssssssss]

OK - just to confirm, our schedule of issues says the following on tiling - do you think that is enough to replace our questions that we wanted to ask ? :-

1. Our complaint is not only about defective workmanship but also about goods and tiles being different to those contractually agreed and some paperwork not being supplied. We have included these items in the schedule.
2. In terms of workmanship, the most fundamental issue is tiling which all needs to be re-done. We have itemised specific defects with the tiling but it should, if possible, be treated as one whole issue rather than individual separate issues.

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Many tiling issues that need to be resolved are largely apparent due to poor setting out and fixing of tiles. In order to truly rectify these, a complete re-tiling of the bathroom is required. If the fundamental problems are not rectified and fixes are applied over the top on a piecemeal basis, it is likely to result in a patchwork quilt finish. Suitable matching tiles may not be found and repair of walls will be necessary. Additionally, other builders will not accept a piecemeal approach resulting in their taking on liability for someone else’s work.
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Dot and Dab tiling method has been used throughout, resulting in many voids behind the tiles and the tiles not being solidly bedded (voids can be heard). This type of tiling is never an approved method and does not conform to industry standards set out by the Tile Association (the trade association for the tiling industry) or British Standards. To bring tiling to industry standards and avoid premature failure of tiles, remove voids and solidly bed the tiles, the bathroom needs to be re-tiled. Please see Appendix A for further information.

Note: This method of fixing results in premature failure of tiles, is especially detrimental on large tiles and in wet and damp areas. It can cause tiles to become loose, fall out, cause moisture damage to the underlying wall and tile and tiling is generally weaker and more prone to cracking under pressure.
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The mosaic has been applied poorly and using dot and dab (see 3.1 above and Appendix A). This has resulted in unevenness and small peaks and troughs (lippage and trueness) throughout in addition to major problems with the grouting. It needs to be completely removed and re-tiled.

Before grouting, the mosaic had areas of adhesive missing behind it and tesserae were moving up and down and not secured by adhesive. We were told by claimants father that the grout would seep through behind the tiles and fill the significant voids and lift the tesserae into position. We have now been informed by the Tile Association that dot and dab is not acceptable and that it is not the job of grout to go behind tiles to secure them, wall adhesive should be behind all the tesserae and tiles should not be moving before grouting.

There are cracks and holes throughout the grout, excessive grout in some areas and not enough in others. Particularly bad at the top and bottom of the mosaic strip and the lower edges of many tesserae. We have been told that it appears a very wet grout slurry has been used and that if the grout is too wet, then it will be friable and likely to cause further failure and cracks in the future.

[jaguarsuk]

The schedule are the issues and that should be enough to guide the expert.

The schedule is what you have claimed, you can’t retrospectively add anything now, so if what is in the schedule isn’t enough unfortunately that’s it.

The solicitor is not angling at you for an extension, they are instructing the expert that if he can’t report in time they need to let you both know to allow you to apply to true court for an extension so he can report.

[Ssssssssss]

The schedule are the issues and that should be enough to guide the expert.

The schedule is what you have claimed, you can’t retrospectively add anything now, so if what is in the schedule isn’t enough unfortunately that’s it.

The solicitor is not angling at you for an extension, they are instructing the expert that if he can’t report in time they need to let you both know to allow you to apply to true court for an extension so he can report.

Thanks Jaguarsuk.

OK - thats good as we aren't adding anything extra and i wrote the schedule to outline all the information we wanted to give an expert so i think we will be ok with it and as you suggested, removing our questions from the letter of instruction and going with their letter predominantly.

So we sent the other side a letter yesterday lunchtime saying we are pretty much happy with their letter but we just need to make some minor amendments - nothing major. Just to remove the start date of works (as this is in dispute) and tidy up some confusing inconsistencies in how they refer to us and them. We asked them to send the word document to us which we would mark up and make clear the changes we made and that we saw no reason why we couldn't get it sent out by Friday ( today) or Monday at the very latest (as it was almost ready) but if they could get the word document to us ASAP that would be great. We haven't heard anything back from them yet which means it won't be likely to go out today now.

Is there anything more we can do ? Obviously we have passed the court deadline now to instruct someone so should we force the issue in any way or just wait and see if they send anything ?

[jaguarsuk]

Thanks Jaguarsuk.

OK - thats good as we aren't adding anything extra and i wrote the schedule to outline all the information we wanted to give an expert so i think we will be ok with it and as you suggested, removing our questions from the letter of instruction and going with their letter predominantly.

So we sent the other side a letter yesterday lunchtime saying we are pretty much happy with their letter but we just need to make some minor amendments - nothing major. Just to remove the start date of works (as this is in dispute) and tidy up some confusing inconsistencies in how they refer to us and them. We asked them to send the word document to us which we would mark up and make clear the changes we made and that we saw no reason why we couldn't get it sent out by Friday ( today) or Monday at the very latest (as it was almost ready) but if they could get the word document to us ASAP that would be great. We haven't heard anything back from them yet which means it won't be likely to go out today now.

Is there anything more we can do ? Obviously we have passed the court deadline now to instruct someone so should we force the issue in any way or just wait and see if they send anything ?

There's not much more you can do than to wait on the reply, they are always going to claim you delayed the process by not providing the CV's sooner and so it's pointless pushing it to much.

[Ssssssssss]

There's not much more you can do than to wait on the reply, they are always going to claim you delayed the process by not providing the CV's sooner and so it's pointless pushing it to much.

Thanks Jaguarsuk. So the last we heard from them was on Wednesday 24th ( the deadline) of last week when they sent their draft letter of instruction and told us which CV they wanted to use.

We sent a message back on Thursday lunchtime saying if they can send back the word document of the draft instructions we can make some minor updates and then get it agreed and sent out.

We haven't heard a peep out of them since. Bear in mind they normally get back to us within a few hours.

So today (Tuesday 30th july), i extracted the text of the draft instructions from the PDF and then made the edits and sent it to them. I said that we don't see any reason in further delaying the instruction of the expert and that we want to send it out by 2pm Wednesday 31st July (tomorrow) and could they get back to us before then. But given the instruction is based on their draft anyway, we didn't see there was much issue.
I sent that around mid morning today (tuesday 30th).

We still haven't heard anything back from them at all.

I guess I'll wait till 2pm tomorrow. I said if we didn't hear anything then we would send our own instructions. Not sure what else we can do or whether we should let the court know if we don't get anything from them tomorrow ? Or whether we should indeed give them more time....the report needs to be submitted to court by 21st August - so all inspections and everything need to be done well before that.

[Ssssssssss]

There's not much more you can do than to wait on the reply, they are always going to claim you delayed the process by not providing the CV's sooner and so it's pointless pushing it to much.

URGENT.

So what i thought would happen, has exactly happened. They were buying time i think to get this other quote. However, the quote is not a named person. It doesn't contain any detail other than a number cost of around £479. No idea if its a chartered surveyor or who except the company is legit. Plus - we know that he knows people who are inspectors.

In our letter - we simply said that if any exploratory works are required then they need to let us know the process of deciding on this.

Please see their letter back today. Attached.

This is the paragraph in our letter he is objecting to too
"The Defendants/Part20 Claimants note that opening up and exploratory works may be necessary in order to investigate alleged defects. Please provide an outline of the process you would follow to determine this and any estimated fees."

[jaguarsuk]

URGENT.

So what i thought would happen, has exactly happened. They were buying time i think to get this other quote. However, the quote is not a named person. It doesn't contain any detail other than a number cost of around £479. No idea if its a chartered surveyor or who except the company is legit. Plus - we know that he knows people who are inspectors.

In our letter - we simply said that if any exploratory works are required then they need to let us know the process of deciding on this.

Please see their letter back today. Attached.

This is the paragraph in our letter he is objecting to too
"The Defendants/Part20 Claimants note that opening up and exploratory works may be necessary in order to investigate alleged defects. Please provide an outline of the process you would follow to determine this and any estimated fees."

Just read it, his schedule isn't your problem

If the purpose isn't to go through the schedule why provide it to the expert, of course it's for him to go through.

I'll draft a response letter.

[Ssssssssss]

Just read it, his schedule isn't your problem

If the purpose isn't to go through the schedule why provide it to the expert, of course it's for him to go through.

I'll draft a response letter.

I know - he keeps saying that but in his actual draft instruction letter - it says ( he wrote that himself)...

"Your instructions are to prepare a single joint Expert Report as to the quality of the works and the standard of the workmanship in those renovation works. You are in that process asked to give consideration to boththe Defendants/Part20 Claimants’ Schedule of Issues in respect of the alleged defects and the Claimant/Part20 Defendant’s response. Your report should in that process consider the industry standards required for the workmanship involved in this renovation."

[pt2537]

URGENT.

So what i thought would happen, has exactly happened. They were buying time i think to get this other quote. However, the quote is not a named person. It doesn't contain any detail other than a number cost of around £479. No idea if its a chartered surveyor or who except the company is legit. Plus - we know that he knows people who are inspectors.

In our letter - we simply said that if any exploratory works are required then they need to let us know the process of deciding on this.

Please see their letter back today. Attached.

This is the paragraph in our letter he is objecting to too
"The Defendants/Part20 Claimants note that opening up and exploratory works may be necessary in order to investigate alleged defects. Please provide an outline of the process you would follow to determine this and any estimated fees."

Why on earth are you letting the litigation run in such a way, the CPR deals with experts, it deals with Single Joint Experts and how each party can if required send their own instructions.

First, go back to the Court order, if its a chartered surveyor you have been ordered to go with then get on the RCIS website and find one, speak to them confirm they have expertise in the field and can provide a CPR 35 compliant report. Send their CV to the other side, if they wont agree on an expert then apply to the Court for further directions.

At the end of the day if you instruct an idiot, whose fault is it? The answer willl be jointly yours and the other sides, so make sure you do what you have to do to protect your position, if as it seems from your posts above the other side have suggested someone who doesnt appear to have the expertise to do the works needed you need to take charge of the reigns here and get the case back on track.

Look at CPR 35 it should guide you as to what is required,

It seems to me the othersides lawyer is pulling your leg here and you have to put a stop to that pdq or it will give you issues later in the case. After all if your expert report is rubbish, how do you prove your case at trial?