Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

[Ssssssssss]

Hello all,

I wonder if anyone could help me.

We received a court claim form on satuday with a date of service on it of 4th September. However there was nothing on the form in the particulars of claim box ( the claimant seems to have stuffed his claim into the Brief details of claim box instead. ). There is nothing in the particulars of claim and no indication of anything to follow or being attached.

We phoned CCMCC and they said that we have to file an acknowledge of service from the date of service on the claim form regardless. I did dispute this with her and said it was not logical but she insisted. She was a manager ! and I had spoke to 2 other people there before that who said that is the standard practice.

I've now read that without a Particulars of Claim, i shouldn't have files the acknowledge of service form.

What should i do ? I'm struggling to understand whether to ask for the case to be struck out which would incur further costs and would probably end up with the claimant putting another claim form in anyway, telling the claimant and court that although I've filed the acknowledge of service form, i still do not have any indication of whether a particulars of claim is to follow, OR tell the claimant only to tell me whether he intends to file anything else. OR to just go ahead with a defence and forget about telling anyone anything...just basing the defence of the brief details of claim ?

He has obviously broken the CPR for no telling me re particulars of claim and also just not providing one

HELP

[Amethyst]

Has the form come direct from court or the claimant ? and is it via the Moneyclaim centre at Northampton or Salford ?

Do the brief details of claim state that particulars are to follow within 14 days at all ?

[ostell]

So you acknowledge so that there can be no application fro default judgement after 14 days and your defence will be no case to answer as there is no particulars of claim and it is embarassing to have to defend with no details and ask that the claim be struck out.

Your understanding of no need to acknowledge until particulars are received is correct but the court staff don't sometimes understand this and will allow a default judgement application.

[jaguarsuk]

I'd assume that the claimant doesn't know they have to complete the PoC and think that by putting the info in the Brief Details box that is sufficient.

Is the claimant an individual or company (not a solicitor) acting for themselves?

[Ssssssssss]

Has the form come direct from court or the claimant ? and is it via the Moneyclaim centre at Northampton or Salford ?

Do the brief details of claim state that particulars are to follow within 14 days at all ?

Hi Amethyst,

The form came from the money claim centre in salford. There was no statement saying any particulars of claim were to follow. He did not state anything in the field, or state whether they were attached or to follow. I checked with salford to make sure there wasn't any error on their part not forwarding me anything and they said it wasn't and that the claimant had not given a particulars of claim separately or otherwise

[Ssssssssss]

So you acknowledge so that there can be no application fro default judgement after 14 days and your defence will be no case to answer as there is no particulars of claim and it is embarassing to have to defend with no details and ask that the claim be struck out.

Your understanding of no need to acknowledge until particulars are received is correct but the court staff don't sometimes understand this and will allow a default judgement application.

Hi Ostell,

Yes i think that is probably the best thing to do as the staff really didn't know about the particulars of claim at all and to be in the safe side i thought i'd just file the acknowledgement. I thought maybe i should write a stern letter to them to ensure that its all on file that i did ask them.

Or maybe ask the claimant if he is intending to file anything further just in case he comes back after my defence and says he wants to file one ?

[Ssssssssss]

I'd assume that the claimant doesn't know they have to complete the PoC and think that by putting the info in the Brief Details box that is sufficient.

Is the claimant an individual or company (not a solicitor) acting for themselves?

Hi Jaguarsuk

Yes I think the claimant probably does not know he has made such an error which is now causing these issues. The claimant is an individual (sole trader). I know he has been in the court process quite often though as I've seen he has 2 cci's against an old limited company he has.

Thats why I'm quite surprised at the omission. Im just worried that he will come back and file something later on and the court will think that me filing my acknowledgement of service, i've admitted that i now have a POC when i don't

[Amethyst]

Hi Amethyst,

The form came from the money claim centre in salford. There was no statement saying any particulars of claim were to follow. He did not state anything in the field, or state whether they were attached or to follow. I checked with salford to make sure there wasn't any error on their part not forwarding me anything and they said it wasn't and that the claimant had not given a particulars of claim separately or otherwise

Okay cool, you'll need to acknowledge the claim ( with intent to defend in full presumably) and defend on the brief details of claim, pointing out if they don't comply with PD 16. Are the brief details of claim enough for you to actually know what the claim is regarding ?

[Ssssssssss]

Okay cool, you'll need to acknowledge the claim ( with intent to defend in full presumably) and defend on the brief details of claim, pointing out if they don't comply with PD 16. Are the brief details of claim enough for you to actually know what the claim is regarding ?

Thanks Amethyst

The details of claim are quite funny but they do say they are claiming for a final instalment of building work that we have withheld. They say that we have said that the work doesn't use skill and care and has provided products not as described under consumer right act 2015 is untrue.
They ask why we haven't gone to trading standards
They say we don't have an independent report
They say the contract they are basing this on is dated 17th May except that isn't the date we agree as we signed and paid on 23rd April !

They haven't put anything else really. No detail whatsoever.

[Ssssssssss]

Okay cool, you'll need to acknowledge the claim ( with intent to defend in full presumably) and defend on the brief details of claim, pointing out if they don't comply with PD 16. Are the brief details of claim enough for you to actually know what the claim is regarding ?

FYI, should i also mention that they did not comply with pre-action protocol. they didn't reply to question whether they are willing to use ADR scheme and also didn't issue a letter before claim.

[jaguarsuk]

Hi Jaguarsuk

Yes I think the claimant probably does not know he has made such an error which is now causing these issues. The claimant is an individual (sole trader). I know he has been in the court process quite often though as I've seen he has 2 cci's against an old limited company he has.

Thats why I'm quite surprised at the omission. Im just worried that he will come back and file something later on and the court will think that me filing my acknowledgement of service, i've admitted that i now have a POC when i don't

Defending and claiming are very different, so I wouldn't put to much stock in the previous dealings. Seems to be someone whom doesn't know what they are doing at all.

[Ssssssssss]

Defending and claiming are very different, so I wouldn't put to much stock in the previous dealings. Seems to be someone whom doesn't know what they are doing at all.

Yes, I think this might have been his attempt at getting in there first so to speak but he has made rash judgement calls throughout the dispute and threatened us with legal action for unpaid debt only 2 days after leaving our home when we said we needed to inspect the work before making a final payment.

[jaguarsuk]

Yes, I think this might have been his attempt at getting in there first so to speak but he has made rash judgement calls throughout the dispute and threatened us with legal action for unpaid debt only 2 days after leaving our home when we said we needed to inspect the work before making a final payment.

I think all you can do is defend as Ostell has said in post #3

[Ssssssssss]

Hello all, I really need help to understand what to do with this one.

So I've received a claim form - served on 4th September. The claim is small and is for us withholding final instalment payment to a builder who has done a poor job.

My question really is in regard to how i can write my defence and counterclaim as a few of the emails and letters that the claimant sent me were marked as "without Prejudice". I've tried to find out as much as i can about this and have come to the conclusion that "without prejudice" cant really apply as they aren't pertaining to any genuine offer of settlement. BUT I dont know how to tell the court this at this stage so that they understand that if i submit the documents and use them in my defence and counterclaim form, i think i have a right to. I'm also scared that if this starts getting to complicated, the court might allocate to a different track to small claims.

First document that had without prejudice :-
An Email in response to our letter setting out all the faults in our bathroom and saying they had breached their contract by not using care and skill etc.
The email response that was without prejudice makes a subtle accusation that we broke our own tile and then says that they only do top end work. Then it offers to inspect the work and write a report in order to decide what to do next. There is nothing else in the content really other than that.

Second document that had without prejudice:-
After the builders inspection, he sent us his "report" in the form of a letter and this had without prejudice stated at the top. The report simply went through the issues we had stated and said whether they agreed with there being a problem or not. The vast majority they disputed and only admitted to the broken tile and the odd crack "that might have appeared after they finished". Everything else was a denial and they also detailed a set of conversations with us which simply did not happen saying we approved a tile which we did not do. At the end of this document it simply states that "I now look forward to hearing from you with a date when we can complete the work." This document also details an admission to the shower not being the one we asked them to put in.

Really need help to understand if these are without prejudice at all ( my view is that they arent anythnig to do with an offer of settlement but maybe someone could shed some light as maybe offering to fix the odd one or two things is a "genuine offer to settle the dispute ?". I also need help in understanding how i should deal with this in terms of court and do i still need permission to submit these documents ? do they get reviewed before a judge sees them and then the court decides or do i have to decide ?

HELP !

[ostell]

Your opponent has probably heard that all letters had to be headed WP without understanding what it is about. My last court argument was like that: 6 letters all headed " Without Prejudice Save As to Costs".

If you want to use the details from the letters as a statement of fact rather than offers then I believe you can ask the judge for a ruling.