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Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ostell View Post
    Your opponent has probably heard that all letters had to be headed WP without understanding what it is about. My last court argument was like that: 6 letters all headed " Without Prejudice Save As to Costs".

    If you want to use the details from the letters as a statement of fact rather than offers then I believe you can ask the judge for a ruling.
    Hi Ostell, Thanks for responding.

    Yes i think they are obviously using the clause to hide any conversations as we have never entered into a settlement negotiation with them.

    It sounds like you are having to deal with this kind of mistake often !

    Could you tell me:
    1 if i just include reference to anything in the documents anyway and just state in my defence form that i do not agree with the WP status of the documents because they have no discussion regarding settlement in them. Then maybe just let him dispute it ? OR am i risking him trying to get the thing struck out if i do that ?

    2. do i make a separate application to the court using n244 ? filing n244's seems to be quite expensive !!

    3. Do i just inform the court in writing that it needs to be reviewed and ask for direction ?

    Really dont know the process and the right process to use ?

    Comment


    • #17
      You could always mention your response to his letter(s) in your witness statement and hope that the judge will ask to see the letters.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by ostell View Post
        You could always mention your response to his letter(s) in your witness statement and hope that the judge will ask to see the letters.
        But if original letter is WP protected isn't all subsequent correspondence on that matter also protected, even if not marked WP?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by des8 View Post

          But if original letter is WP protected isn't all subsequent correspondence on that matter also protected, even if not marked WP?
          Yes that is what i thought too. I did mark the response as open communication however i wrote "open communication to your without prejudice letter" which may well mean that it could be protected too.

          I guess the point is that there has been no "genuine attempt to offer or settle the claim/dispute". It was made before we even mentioned court although he had mentioned court early on.

          Additionally, the first email was simply about arrange a date to come and inspect work. The second letter was his response to our list of faults with a couple of the faults stating he would fix a tiny bit. The rest was denials of everything. Then the last sentence was just that he looked forward to arranging a date to fix those tiny few faults he thinks there are. (he offered the same in an open communication too so nothing new in the without prejudice letter other than a fabricated conversation about us approving things we didn't approve).

          I'm not sure either of these letters therefore constitutes a "genuine attempt to offer or settle the claim/dispute" ? What are everyones thoughts on this firstly - my own view is that they are therefore not "without prejudice".

          Secondly - if they arent a genuine attempt to offer and therefore not a genuine "without prejudice" status, then how do i tell the court this. I don't want them slapping me on the wrists for including the documents because they see the words without prejudice...

          I really dont know how to tell the court and maybe ask for them to decide...or should i just include the things and then let the other side object if they want to ?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ostell View Post
            You could always mention your response to his letter(s) in your witness statement and hope that the judge will ask to see the letters.
            Hi Ostell, but can i do this as isnt the response "without prejudice" too implicitly ? (even though the first document really isnt !).

            Or do you mean that i could use the fact that my letters don't explicitly say "without prejudice" in order to attempt to submit them as ambiguous as to whether they are also "without prejudice" ?

            Comment


            • #21
              I believe what should happen if a judge sees a WP letter, is that he (the judge) recuses himself and the case is heard by a different judge.

              If the WP letters are just a rehash of what was written in other letters I would just omit them from the WS as they will only lengthen your WS without adding anything to the argument.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by des8 View Post
                I believe what should happen if a judge sees a WP letter, is that he (the judge) recuses himself and the case is heard by a different judge.

                If the WP letters are just a rehash of what was written in other letters I would just omit them from the WS as they will only lengthen your WS without adding anything to the argument.
                The WP letters i think have been sent as WP because the claimant has made accusations in them and fabricated conversations. I suspect that is why he used the WP at the top. The trouble is our responses may be WP - including our response which asked him if he would use an ADR scheme and also asks him for specific information.

                Should i just say we asked him to use an ADR scheme anyway regardless of the fact its in our response to his WP letters ?

                Comment


                • #23
                  For the purposes of using Without Prejudice, what does a "genuine attempt to resolve the dispute / genuine offer to settle" mean ?

                  Could it be used if our builder says he will fix a couple of minor faults in our bathroom but nothing else ?

                  Or does it mean that its meant to be something that would settle the entire claim / matter ? e.g. a monetary settlement ?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Why not?
                    Seems reasonable to me

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      It does appear he is using WP incorrectly and so without effect.
                      Please do not open numerous threads on the same subject, as it will only cause confusion

                      Kati can you merge this with Ssssssssss other thread

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by des8 View Post
                        It does appear he is using WP incorrectly and so without effect.
                        Please do not open numerous threads on the same subject, as it will only cause confusion

                        Kati can you merge this with Ssssssssss other thread

                        Apologies Des8, Kati, Was not done to cause any problems. I was just trying to create a new thread as i wanted to simplify what i was asking without all the details and be more direct. Apologies if its caused any confusion.

                        i've just re-read the claimants statement of case and just seen that he has made a tiny reference to one of the letters he marked as WP so i think that therefore means i can use it now without worry !

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Quick question Kati, should i post anything about my case into the same thread as this one ? I think you've merged two separate questions / issues into one. I don't mind this but please do let me know if i should post anything else about my case here or it should be subject based ?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Ssssssssss this is now the only thread on which you should post about this case

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              OK so this morning we received a general form of judgement or order from the court. I am not sure what it means or what time limits it sets out for this builder to file a particulars now...????


                              IT says

                              Before Deputy District Judge XXXX

                              Upon reading a letter from Defendant
                              IT IS ORDERED THAT

                              1. The claim is stayed until the Claimant complies with the provisions of Rule 7.4(3) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998 by filing a copy of the particulars of claim.

                              2. Because this order has been made on the application of a party without noticed of the hearing being given, any other parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party making such an application must send or delivery the appllication to the court ( together with any appropriate fee) to arrive within seven days of service of this Order. If the applcation is one which requires a hearing, and

                              (a) the party making the application is the Defendant; and
                              (b) the Defendant is an individual,
                              then upon the filing of the application the claim will be transfered to the defedants home court. In all other cases requiring a hearing the claim will be transferred to the preferred court.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                What did your letter say ? It seems to have been treated as an application for the Claimant to file proper particulars ( normally an application sets you back £255 lol )

                                The claim is on hold until the Claimant files his particulars of claim, doesn't give any timescale or sanction, also doesn't order the Claimant to serve the particulars on you ( although filing is within 7 days from service so he should serve first).

                                So if he wants to proceed he will need to file compliant Particulars with the court, at which point I'd expect the court to issue further directions as to your defence. Unless he disputes that he hasn't complied with 7.4(3) in which case he can apply to set aside the order ( within 7 days).

                                In any event, from your side, the claim is on hold, and there should be a bar in place preventing the claimant obtaining any default judgment until particulars have been served and filed and directions given for defence.
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                                SHORTCUTS

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