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Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

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  • Ssssssssss
    started a topic Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

    Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

    Hello all,

    I wonder if anyone could help me.

    We received a court claim form on satuday with a date of service on it of 4th September. However there was nothing on the form in the particulars of claim box ( the claimant seems to have stuffed his claim into the Brief details of claim box instead. ). There is nothing in the particulars of claim and no indication of anything to follow or being attached.

    We phoned CCMCC and they said that we have to file an acknowledge of service from the date of service on the claim form regardless. I did dispute this with her and said it was not logical but she insisted. She was a manager ! and I had spoke to 2 other people there before that who said that is the standard practice.

    I've now read that without a Particulars of Claim, i shouldn't have files the acknowledge of service form.

    What should i do ? I'm struggling to understand whether to ask for the case to be struck out which would incur further costs and would probably end up with the claimant putting another claim form in anyway, telling the claimant and court that although I've filed the acknowledge of service form, i still do not have any indication of whether a particulars of claim is to follow, OR tell the claimant only to tell me whether he intends to file anything else. OR to just go ahead with a defence and forget about telling anyone anything...just basing the defence of the brief details of claim ?

    He has obviously broken the CPR for no telling me re particulars of claim and also just not providing one

    HELP
    Tags: None

  • Ssssssssss
    replied
    Ok so we had mediation. The other side said the same things they have said before and continued to lie. Kept saying we don't have an independent report but he knows the court will authorise one so it's a mute point really isn't it? Tried to imply that our builders quotes are worthless because they aren't independent although they are.

    Also said any new builder will say they need to redo the bathroom because they want the money... So implying again the quotes are worthless. But every builder is saying they won't patch up the old builders work so surely if we can't get a quote for a patch up then we can only redo everything as the new builders want.!


    We offered a starting position to go from asking for 7000 to 6000. He refused and came back with his offer which was that we pay him 500 instead of the 1800 he is asking for.

    I thought this was quite a big jump down for him...

    We said no so it's definitely going to hearing now.

    So would really like any input on the things mentioned about and also advice on how to get my paperwork in order and prepare for hearing.


    I can get very defensive face to face and so am most nervous about how to prepare my statement and approach to questioning the other side.

    Also, he wants an expert and so do we. However we are really concerned that he may know the experts he is asking for... They are a proper body but he knows a lot of people in the area and keeps mentioning he wants them which is strange given the obvious poor work... Is there any way we can avoid this in favour of someone else like the tile association?

    As always any help is greatly appreciated. I was so hoping it would be over today.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ssssssssss
    replied
    Originally posted by jaguarsuk View Post

    The appointment is conducted with the mediator first calling the claimant and then separately calling you. You will never all be on the line together and in the first call you simply need to explain the issue, that you don't want them back to rectify the work as they have broken your trust in them and are willing to be movable on a settlement figure should they make an offer.

    Your approach of flexibility to the settlement is already in the spirit intend in mediation, so you are already approaching things the right way.

    Nothing said or disclosed will be given to the court other than a settlement agreement if one is reached. Equally anything discussed cannot be used in Witness Statements or any potential court hearing. This promotes honest open discussion to genuinely achieve settlement.

    Good luck, as if you can agree it'll put this to bed for you and if not then you will simply continue to a hearing.
    Thanks so much Jaguarsuk, the appointment is tomorrow am and I really do hope an agreement can be reached. Thanks for your message, it's calmed my nerves quite a lot. Will post if anything comes of it or not.

    thanks again

    sonal

    Leave a comment:


  • jaguarsuk
    replied
    Originally posted by Ssssssssss View Post

    Thanks so much for responding Jaguarsuk, really appreciate it. I'll make sure that I put those things into the witness statements. Since this post, we have been waiting almost 3 months for the small claims mediation teams to contact us and finally a few weeks ago I rang them to ask what was happening. Apparently they didn't know why they hadn't given us an appointment yet either !

    Anyway, we now have a small claims mediation appointment set for next week. If you have any tips on how we should approach this appointment then please do let me know. Are there any things we should or should not say ? We don't want these builders back in our home and thats a definite as they have lied to us and on the court forms but we are willing to be flexible on the amount of compensation.
    The appointment is conducted with the mediator first calling the claimant and then separately calling you. You will never all be on the line together and in the first call you simply need to explain the issue, that you don't want them back to rectify the work as they have broken your trust in them and are willing to be movable on a settlement figure should they make an offer.

    Your approach of flexibility to the settlement is already in the spirit intend in mediation, so you are already approaching things the right way.

    Nothing said or disclosed will be given to the court other than a settlement agreement if one is reached. Equally anything discussed cannot be used in Witness Statements or any potential court hearing. This promotes honest open discussion to genuinely achieve settlement.

    Good luck, as if you can agree it'll put this to bed for you and if not then you will simply continue to a hearing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ssssssssss
    replied
    Originally posted by jaguarsuk View Post
    1. No need to declare anything to the court about advice or assisting your parents.

    2. You can bring this up in the Witness Statement.

    3. He will have to produce a copy of this letter as an exhibit with his Witness Statement if he intends to rely upon it as evidence.

    4. Submit the original document as an exhibit of your witness statement.

    5. If he intends to rely upon the receipt then it'll be as per point 3.

    6. That's just him trying to validate his position, again in the witness statement just rebuff this with the reasoning you have given in your question.
    Thanks so much for responding Jaguarsuk, really appreciate it. I'll make sure that I put those things into the witness statements. Since this post, we have been waiting almost 3 months for the small claims mediation teams to contact us and finally a few weeks ago I rang them to ask what was happening. Apparently they didn't know why they hadn't given us an appointment yet either !

    Anyway, we now have a small claims mediation appointment set for next week. If you have any tips on how we should approach this appointment then please do let me know. Are there any things we should or should not say ? We don't want these builders back in our home and thats a definite as they have lied to us and on the court forms but we are willing to be flexible on the amount of compensation.

    Leave a comment:


  • jaguarsuk
    replied
    1. No need to declare anything to the court about advice or assisting your parents.

    2. You can bring this up in the Witness Statement.

    3. He will have to produce a copy of this letter as an exhibit with his Witness Statement if he intends to rely upon it as evidence.

    4. Submit the original document as an exhibit of your witness statement.

    5. If he intends to rely upon the receipt then it'll be as per point 3.

    6. That's just him trying to validate his position, again in the witness statement just rebuff this with the reasoning you have given in your question.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ssssssssss
    replied
    Hi all,

    We have now received a defence to our counterclaim after sending the letter Amethyst suggested we do. I was wondering if anyone could take a look at it at all? I've attached it here along with his original particulars of claim, and our defence.

    I had some specific questions also if anyone is willing to look. These are :-

    1. Did we have to tell or the court we have taken legal advice ? Also, I'm not actually a lawyer but I did write the documents on my parents behalf. They signed them and were happy with their content. Did i have to declare that i did that ? The documents came from my parents not me and I only wrote them up and did all the research on the legal side of things.

    2. He has lied about the tiles and asking us for approvals. Is this something we should tell the court ? Given its meant to be signed as truth ?

    3. He has said that there was a letter dated 4th June ( kind of can't figure out if he is referring to the letter we sent him on the 5th June as he has misquoted dates before ). Should we ask him what letter he is referring to or leave it till court time ? Worried he has made up a letter maybe ?

    4. He said he put his address on the 13th april document but he didn't. If he produces a different document with an address on it in court, what should we do ? He definitely didn't give us any document with his address on it. The document only had his name and bank details.

    5. He has said he got a trade discount. Is it sufficient for us to say that it would show on the receipt if that were the case but he hasn't produced the receipt so we can't see ? Is he right that we have no right to see this information ?

    6. Why should the people we contacted such as tile association contact him ? Is this something we should have told them to do ? We were only seeking advice from them. Same with Trading standards, they said they don't contact directly unless there is a criminal breach rather than civil one.

    Any help or feedback greatly received.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Ssssssssss; 20th December 2018, 15:57:PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ssssssssss
    replied
    Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
    Personally, I would write to the otherside thanking them for the DQ and asking them if they intend to respond the counterclaim, point them to the relevant CPR and giving them 7 or 14 days to do so before you would request default judgment on the counterclaim. Then if you request default judgment and they subsequently argue the case, you can show you were reasonable and gave them every opportunity.

    It really isn't clear, particularly for LIPs, how to deal with counterclaims, and the documents the court sends out don't exactly try to give any clues that you are meant to defend with the DQ.


    " I am in receipt of your Directions Questionnaire however I note that you have failed to file or serve any reply to the Defence nor respond to the Counterclaim issued against you with either a proposal for payment nor a reason why you dispute the Counterclaim. If you do not respond to the Counterclaim within the next 7/14 days ( by 4pm on xxxx December 2018 ) I will ask the court to enter Judgment against you in default.

    I draw your attention to the following Civil Procedure Rules and the accompanying Practice Directions - Part 15 - Defence and Reply and Part 20 - Counterclaims.

    Nicey nice bit about mediation opportunities etc "






    Thanks Amethyst, That sounds like a very sensible way forward. We still haven't received anything so I'm just drafting a letter up as outlined by you. Its so hard navigating the system when the other side don't seem to allow any rules :-(

    Leave a comment:


  • Amethyst
    replied
    Personally, I would write to the otherside thanking them for the DQ and asking them if they intend to respond the counterclaim, point them to the relevant CPR and giving them 7 or 14 days to do so before you would request default judgment on the counterclaim. Then if you request default judgment and they subsequently argue the case, you can show you were reasonable and gave them every opportunity.

    It really isn't clear, particularly for LIPs, how to deal with counterclaims, and the documents the court sends out don't exactly try to give any clues that you are meant to defend with the DQ.


    " I am in receipt of your Directions Questionnaire however I note that you have failed to file or serve any reply to the Defence nor respond to the Counterclaim issued against you with either a proposal for payment nor a reason why you dispute the Counterclaim. If you do not respond to the Counterclaim within the next 7/14 days ( by 4pm on xxxx December 2018 ) I will ask the court to enter Judgment against you in default.

    I draw your attention to the following Civil Procedure Rules and the accompanying Practice Directions - Part 15 - Defence and Reply and Part 20 - Counterclaims.

    Nicey nice bit about mediation opportunities etc "







    Leave a comment:


  • Ssssssssss
    replied
    I've also just been reading your notes on setting aside a ccj and it mentioned that if we brought a default judgement against the other side on a technicality, we might be sanctioned??? Is not providing a defence to counterclaim deemed a technicality?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ssssssssss
    replied
    When I say negative consequences in message above, I mean will the judge look badly on us in way?

    Both they and us have said on directions questionnaire that we want to use small claims mediation for example. Will this therefore look bad on us if we apply for default judgement now?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ssssssssss
    replied
    So I've taken a look at form n225 but it seems to be geared towards claims not counterclaims. Is this the right form to use for a default judgement if the claimant hasn't replied to our counterclaim?

    Should I tell the claimant I am filing this?

    Are there any negative consequences of doing this at all?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ssssssssss
    replied
    Originally posted by jaguarsuk View Post
    They have 14 days from the date they have been served the defence and counterclaim (14 days from 2 days after the date MCOL says the DQ was sent to them) to reply to it.

    They must file and serve it on all parties (you) as well as the court.

    if they do not then you should seek summary judgement of the counterclaim.
    Thanks, I'll get the form to do this and double check with the court if they received anything. Are there any negative consequences for us of applying for a default judgement ? I'm sure they will try and say it isn't valid.

    Leave a comment:


  • jaguarsuk
    replied
    They have 14 days from the date they have been served the defence and counterclaim (14 days from 2 days after the date MCOL says the DQ was sent to them) to reply to it.

    They must file and serve it on all parties (you) as well as the court.

    if they do not then you should seek summary judgement of the counterclaim.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ssssssssss
    replied
    Hello. We just received a copy of the allocation questionnaire that the claimant filed and it doesn't contain a defence to our counterclaim in it.

    I've just noticed that when we received our own allocation questionnaires from the court it said on them "this is now a defended claim. The defendant has filed a defence a copy of which is enclosed". This order doesn't seem to mention our counterclaim. Is this something we should be worried about ?

    I did phone the court who said it looked like the counterclaim had been registered ok in their systems so i'm not sure what has happened now. Shouldn't the allocation questionnaire have said "this is now a defended claim and counterclaim has been filed ??" Also our defence is one document and says "defence and counterclaim" on it so i'm not sure how they could make a mistake.

    Also, should we do anything given we haven't received a copy of a defence to counterclaim with the allocation questionnaire the claimant sent us? Obviously the court won't process anything sent to them for another few days as they have their 4 day backlog.

    Leave a comment:

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SHORTCUTS

Pre-Action Letters
First Steps
Check dates
Income/Expenditure
Acknowledge Claim
CCA Request
CPR 31.14 Request
Subject Access Request Letter
Example Defence
Set Aside Application
Witness Statements
Directions Questionnaire



If you received a court claim and would like some help and support dealing with it, please read the first steps and make a new thread in the forum with as much information as you can.


NOTE: If you receive a court claim note these dates in your calendar ...
Acknowledge Claim - within 14 days from Service

Defend Claim - within 28 days from Service (IF you acknowledged in time)

If you fail to Acknowledge the claim you may have a default judgment awarded against you, likewise, if you fail to enter your defence within 28 days from Service.




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