Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

[Ssssssssss]

Okay, disappointing and the same game they have been playing all along.

I would write to the solicitor based on what he has said and ask them to file form N434 to ensure there is no doubt over where any future correspondence should be served.

Hello Jaguarsuk,

So we finally had the final hearing. However, at the end, when the judge went away, her computer broke down apparently and so she has delayed giving her verdict to a later date as a telephone conference call. Bit of a shame as it would have been nice to have ended it today but hey ho.

As a whole the hearing was really not what i expected at all.

Apparently, according to the judge, she had read our witness statements (but not looked at all of the exhibits i think) and the experts report but she had not read the other sides as apparently they didn't have the bundle in court and a second copy had been delivered at 10am this morning.

Both she and the other side said there was a lot of paperwork etc (I had a lot of evidence!) and the other side on a number of occasions made out that they couldn't find anything as there was too many papers (even though I told them the page numbers verbally of where what they were looking for was).

Judge said that the way it was going to work is that the Claimant and his dad would articulate their case, one by one they would speak. Then I (the defendants) would ask them any questions i wanted to ask them about that or their witness statement.

Then I and my parents would speak, and the other side would ask us any questions they wanted to.

As it happened, the judge really asked little to no questions at all and occasionally stepped in just to ensure an answer was given or things didn't go off topic.

This was probably the worst scenario for me as asking the right questions to get the points out i found very difficult indeed and every time I wanted to just say something, she kept pushing me to make it a question rather than a statement. I dithered quite a lot to be honest. We were starting to get pushed for time when it came to our turn to present and then by lunch time (I think she kept reminding us of time running out), i'd only articulated a small amount of information from my witness statement so i decided in the afternoon i would forget the rest of my witness statement and concentrate on the one or two bigger points i wanted and needed to make about the tiling and the experts report. So i did that. ( i left a lot of gaps but there just didn't seem time enough to get to them.)

Then the other side asked me questions.

I was able to answer their questions well I think and we managed to talk about a few of the issues in more detail as a result. I definitely didn't get to push all my points forward and with the limited time, it was almost like a rush job but I think i got a few of the bigger points over at least even if it leaves holes in some places that we haven't been able to address.

When I needed to prove anything or when the other side said something had happened which had not happened, i referred the judge to the exhibits and explained how those statements can't be true or aren't true. I also challenged them a few times to provide evidence and they just flapped about and complained they couldn't find anything it the file because i had obviously just been fabricating complaints and I had been googling everything and creating reems of paper for them to get through for the sake of it ( yes they actually did say that a few times - not sure what the judge thought as i didn't look up and i also didn't respond ).

I had thought that the hearing would focus heavily and mainly on the schedule of issues but she really didn't go there at all.
She didn't even review our quotes or ask about our estimates. She didn't even ask anything about the experts report or the figures that the expert had ended up putting in his report.

She asked a lot of questions like
1. what is the price difference between the tiles you wanted and the ones you got
2. whats the difference between the radiator you got and the one you should have got.
But what was annoying is she didn't ask us, she asked the other side !!!

I really don't know how she is going to work out how much to award or not at all from what happened today. I really thought the main focus would be the schedules and list of defects and it really wasn't.

She did say at the start that there would be a winner and and loser and it was her job to find out which was which. But unless her aim was to find out who was telling the truth and who wasn't i really don't know how she will get to a monetary figure on the basis of what happened today ( other than taking the experts numbers at face value - he ended up including them in his experts report in the end). The other side also tried to tell her that the figures were exaggerated and not accurately calculated and she seems to be listening to that...she didn't ask us what we thought in response though !

All in all, I think we did ok but I'd have liked to get more specific points across and talk about the things that really were out and out lie. Just have no idea what she is going to do now though or what she thought or who she believed or how she will calculate values.

[jaguarsuk]

Okay, disappointing and the same game they have been playing all along.

I would write to the solicitor based on what he has said and ask them to file form N434 to ensure there is no doubt over where any future correspondence should be served.

[Ssssssssss]

Your best prep is to go back over your case both as defendant to their claim and claimant on your claim, bullet point all the points you want to raise on each
and have them there to tick off as you go. If those points are supported by evidence note where to be able to tell the judge where they are.

Don’t let them get you riled up not matter what they say, stay calm and professional throughout. Refer to the judge as Sir, Madam or Judge. Don’t talk to the other side directly even if they talk to you directly.

If you want to cross examine them, ask the judge if you may ask them some questions.

Also have a bullet point list of their behaviour throughout the case, so that if you win you can ask for costs and if they win you can argue against any cost request.

Good luck and obviously let us all know how you get on.

So we have just got off the call. However the case has been postponed again.

Firstly according to the other side, their Skype wasn't working well and so could they call in instead !!!. So judge concluded that it wouldn't be fair to see one party and not the other.
Plus the size of the files are big (ours is very large - lots of exhibits) and to put the effort into looking through them and being fair, a day was needed and not the 2 hours that it had been listed for. He said that the sums were not trivial and so to be on the wrong end of that when the files had not been read properly would not be fair and when one party wasn't happy to do it remotely.

He then asked the other side - that previously they had objected to doing a Skype call. They said they had and it would be better to come in etc etc. They then moaned that they had only received all the information from us on the 16th and so hadn't been given a chance to answer it all.

When the judge came to me, I said we would like to finished it as soon as possible and even though parents are vulnerable we just want it finished. I then said to the judge that we swapped all information with the other side on the 16th as part of the witness statements and therefore we Hadn't seen their information either till that date.

And then he then said he would find a room big enough and then get it listed for after 1st October and hopefully before 15th. First date available.

The other side are still moaning about not seeing stuff and I suspect they will continue to do that in the hearing - however they never gave us anything themselves and still haven't as most of it is not in their witness statement either.

Also, they said to the judge that they had got rid of their solicitors as they couldn't afford to continue with them. And confirm to the judge that it would be only the two of them coming to the final hearing.

He was a really nice judge though it seems and far more approachable that the others we have had. But don't know if it will be him in the final hearing.

[jaguarsuk]

Your best prep is to go back over your case both as defendant to their claim and claimant on your claim, bullet point all the points you want to raise on each
and have them there to tick off as you go. If those points are supported by evidence note where to be able to tell the judge where they are.

Don’t let them get you riled up not matter what they say, stay calm and professional throughout. Refer to the judge as Sir, Madam or Judge. Don’t talk to the other side directly even if they talk to you directly.

If you want to cross examine them, ask the judge if you may ask them some questions.

Also have a bullet point list of their behaviour throughout the case, so that if you win you can ask for costs and if they win you can argue against any cost request.

Good luck and obviously let us all know how you get on.

[Ssssssssss]

Hi jaguarsuk I'm not sure if you are still there as its been so long.

Anyway, our case was previously delayed till 25th August from the original date in march earlier this year.

I phoned the court on friday and they said that the case is definitely going ahead on 25th August but they have changed it to be remote via skype for business. They are apparently going to send letters out asap to inform everyone.

I was wondering therefore as this is now the final hearing, what would be the best thing to do in terms of preparing and also if you have any tips for dealing with a remote hearing.

Do we need to write any statements to read out and how should we prepare regarding all the issues ? Should we have questions for the other side or anything like that. It's been listed for 2 hours but if they go through everything it would likely take longer.

Anyway, any prep help would be appreciated. We havent heard anything from the other side but i suspect when they get their letters, they will probably try to delay again.

I understand we can share documents via skype for business if needed also.

[GBExile]

thanks gbexile.

If by "they" you mean the court - of course I know that.

If by "they" you mean the other party - they have been delaying the case for months and months before Corona ever happened.

My comment was in regards to the fact that it can be done remotely and there is nothing in the case that should have stopped that.

I doubt the courts will be prioritising debt cases to be done remotely. All of the kit required to do so would be transferred to criminal cases. Or simple stuff.

[Ssssssssss]

Where have you been for the last 6 weeks? They are delaying this case for your protection too.

thanks gbexile.

If by "they" you mean the court - of course I know that.

If by "they" you mean the other party - they have been delaying the case for months and months before Corona ever happened.

My comment was in regards to the fact that it can be done remotely and there is nothing in the case that should have stopped that.

[GBExile]

I'm not sure how they have drawn this conclusion .

Where have you been for the last 6 weeks? They are delaying this case for your protection too.

[Ssssssssss]

They’re just delaying as much as they can, it’s the game they’ve been playing all along and this has just given them another chance to do it further.

Thanks Jaguarsuk. Yes It looks like exactly that :-(

Sadly we got a letter on Saturday from the court which said that upon receiving both letters from us and them, they have decided that our case is not suitable for a remote hearing and that we will have to go in in person on 25th August !

I'm not sure how they have drawn this conclusion and whether the letter the other side wrote them was enough to sway them but its clearly worked. It could also just be that the court doesn't have capacity or remote video capability setup well enough yet. Who knows.

I guess not much we can do now but wait

My only concern is that it gives the other side more time to concoct stuff but I guess not much we can do about that now? It won't change the good evidence and video we submitted though in any case i guess.

[jaguarsuk]

They’re just delaying as much as they can, it’s the game they’ve been playing all along and this has just given them another chance to do it further.

[Ssssssssss]

Btw, contrary to what they have written, we have not made any reference in our witness statements to additional physical evidence...

[Ssssssssss]

All you need to do is reference the point the order mentioning Skype, provide your skype address and telephone number.

4 is if you want to apply to vary the order, saying you need to make an application and provide a witness statement to explain the application.

Thanks Jaguarsuk. We wrote to the court today as per your message and the directions given (attached letter).

We have just now been copied into the claimants letter to the court (attached below) which was submitted at 4.15 so 15 minutes late but also they don't really seem to have done what the court asked ! They seem to be asking for a physical hearing but one that is delayed until such time as social distancing is no longer what the government is asking for - which could be 6 months from now for all we know !! Not sure what they are trying to do here other than delay the whole thing even more. Can they even do this given the directions that were given ?

[jaguarsuk]

All you need to do is reference the point the order mentioning Skype, provide your skype address and telephone number.*

4 is if you want to apply to vary the order, saying you need to make an application and provide a witness statement to explain the application.*

[Ssssssssss]

jaguarsuk**Hi Jaguarsuk, it looks like things are moving fast at the court to get themselves digital. *We have received following order. *I am inclined to think that our preference should be for a Skype hearing as otherwise the judge might not see the video of dot and dab we submitted and it will be a lot harder for all 3 of us to be on the same telephone call and 2 from their side as well...They might even get their lawyer involved now. * Is the fact we have submitted video enough of a reason to want a Skype hearing ? *I guess also, if we need to share any documents or web pages with the court like the additional examples of dot and dab then that might be an issue now ? * * Additionally, if any photographs or evidence needs to be examined like the originals then how can this be done over the phone...in particular their doctored photographs that they have submitted ?

It does seem to be asking whether we want Skype or telephone or something else but i'm not sure if they are saying we will have to do the point 4(2) witness statement if that is the case ?

*The order is*
upon noting the public health emergency from Covid 19 and the need for safe working and the need to avoid unnecessary face to face contact :-

It is ordered that :-
1. *The final hearing listed on 24th March ( they meant 25th), is adjourned to the first available date after 28 days.
2. *It appears that the matter may be is suitable for a hearing by telephone, Skype or other remote means. *The parties shall by 4pm 1st Apr 2020 each supply to the court in writing telephone numbers upon which they may be contacted for the purposes of a telephone hearing and state their preference as to which type of remote hearing they would like. *Upon receipt the court will either fix a remote final hearing or fix a further date for a hearing by telephone *and directions as to how the telephone hearing will take place.
3. *As an alternative to a telephone hearing any party can ask the court to decide the dispute in his or her absence. *The court will then consider that party's statement of case and other documents he or she sent to the court. *Should you wish to do this you will ned to notify the court and the other party at least 7 days before the hearing date.
4. *Because this order has been made without a hearing, any party may apply to set aside or vary this order upon sending to the court and the other parties written notice provided : *(1) *that any such application is made within 7 days of receipt of this order (2) *It is accompanied by a witness statement to be relied upon in support explaining (if it be the case) (a) why the hearing needs to be heard urgently (b) why a telephone hearing is not appropriate.

[Ssssssssss]

I went back to them with the first paragraph of what you said about the fact it IS the responsibility of HMCTS to keep us safe and to direct their issues to HMCTS themselves in future. * Then just said we would await the courts direction going forwards as its out of both parties hands.