Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Drat, I only popped down the road to the post office, and it seems the Adjudicator tried ringing and my answer machine didn't kick in, will try to call him back now, but what more is there to say in regards of his view?

Dear

Thank you for your emails.

To answer your queries below is a little difficult by email. I feel that to clarify the whole situation including my view may be easier over the phone as some points may be a bit lost by email.

I have just tried to call your house phone, but it does not appear to have an answerphone facility.

So if you wish to give me a call, I will be in the office till 5 and again from 8.30 tomorrow morning. If you want to give me a convenient time to call you please do.

Yours sincerely

M
Adjudicator | Financial Ombudsman Service
South Quay Plaza | 183 Marsh Wall | London | E14 9SR T: 020

[The Debt Star]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Ok thanks Di, that makes sense of my situation too:

My HFC credit card becomes
a Marbles Credit Card and
my PPI claim is bounced by the Halifax who
as the Bank of Scotland
say it was sold to me by HSBC

Am I the only one who thinks globalisation is bull****?

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Ok thanks Di, that makes sense of my situation too:

My HFC credit card becomes
a Marbles Credit Card and
my PPI claim is bounced by the Halifax who
as the Bank of Scotland
say it was sold to me by HSBC

Am I the only one who thinks globalisation is bull****?

No your not the only one TDS LMAO.

So do you want the CEO details of the HSBC bank then?

[cappo]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Ok thanks Di, that makes sense of my situation too:

My HFC credit card becomes
a Marbles Credit Card and
my PPI claim is bounced by the Halifax who
as the Bank of Scotland
say it was sold to me by HSBC

Am I the only one who thinks globalisation is bull****?

Nice avatar ds have you seen the Volkswagen advert on the tv?

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

My hubby came in from working days and rang the Adjudicator, basically he said not to worry about the recent letter, these type are sent out in batches, but what he did say was to definately get in touch with HFC Bank because this seems the case for others who have made complaints as well.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

My hubby came in from working days and rang the Adjudicator, basically he said not to worry about the recent letter, these type are sent out in batches, but what he did say was to definately get in touch with HFC Bank because this seems the case for others who have made complaints as well.

Well I complained to the FOS about Halifax aka Bank of Scotland T/A Marbles and the FOS appear to have picked up on the fact that the claim is against HSBC, not HFC. However, on the basis that they're all in bed together (not a thought I propose to dwell on I might add) then its for the FOS to sort out. At the end of the day, we are the consumers are its not our fault they re-brand, sell accounts on and try all manner of devious ploys to get us to lose their scent. But, as for HFC's scent, its like a skunk, and it makes it easier to track them down.

Avatar: thanks guys. Yes I have seen the VW advert. Why oh why weren't there cozzies like that when I was a kid? All I had to make do with was a plastic lightsabre and one of those masks you cut out the back of a Weetabix packet.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Well I complained to the FOS about Halifax aka Bank of Scotland T/A Marbles and the FOS appear to have picked up on the fact that the claim is against HSBC, not HFC. However, on the basis that they're all in bed together (not a thought I propose to dwell on I might add) then its for the FOS to sort out. At the end of the day, we are the consumers are its not our fault they re-brand, sell accounts on and try all manner of devious ploys to get us to lose their scent. But, as for HFC's scent, its like a skunk, and it makes it easier to track them down.

Avatar: thanks guys. Yes I have seen the VW advert. Why oh why weren't there cozzies like that when I was a kid? All I had to make do with was a plastic lightsabre and one of those masks you cut out the back of a Weetabix packet.

I know where your coming from, and your right its not our fault!!

I'm going to try to come to the bottom of it, even send (copies of HFC paperwork to HFC and ask them what it was in aid of) see what they come back with then, but it was these that did go through all the loan and ppi details and had direct links with the insurer Hamilton......confusing for us isn't it?

Have you an email contact for HFC?

Here HSBC CEO
james.z.ball@hsbc.com

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

And this here, saving it here to look back into this, further down the pages about three quarters down, there are details of Hamilton Transferring loan policies - HFC.

Hamilton Transfer

http://hamiltontransfer.com/library/...cument.DOC.pdf


For example as listed.......

Household Bank Personal
Loan Payment Protection

13063 07/10/03
Creditor Insurance Policies HFC Bank Limited 60 month term

Beneficial Loan Personal
Loan Payment Protection

13063bf 01/09/01
Creditor Insurance Policies HFC Bank Limited 60 month term and longer

Beneficial Loan Personal
Loan Payment Protection

13063 Oct 2003
Creditor Insurance Policies HFC Bank Limited 60 month term

Beneficial Loan Personal
Loan Payment Protection

13063 Jan 2004
Creditor Insurance Policies HFC Bank Limited 60 month term

HFC Direct Loan Payment
Protection

92144 Nov 2003
Creditor Insurance Policies HFC Bank Limited 60 month term

Hamilton Direct Loan
Payment Protection

92144 Jun 02
Creditor Insurance Policies HFC Bank Limited 60 months and longer

Hamilton Direct Loan
Payment Protection

91964 11.03L
Creditor Insurance Policies HFC Bank Limited 60 months

And so on.

TDS

The link above, there are some details in regards of Marbles/HFC as well.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

TDS

From the above link posted above post, it shows the distributers of the Loan and PPI.
What date was yours taken out?

Marbles Loan Payment
Protection

92213 Nov 2003 Creditor Insurance Policies HFC Bank Limited 60 month term

Marbles Loan Payment
Protection

92213 Mar 2004 Creditor Insurance Policies HFC Bank Limited 60 month term

Marbles Loan Payment
Protection

92213 Jan 2005 Creditor Insurance Policies HFC Bank Limited 60 month term

[The Debt Star]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,
Was originally HFC Beneficial credit card, taken out in 2000. Marbles came on the scene in early 2009. Marbles have told me that HSBC flogged the PPI and has nowt to do with them. I see that the FOS appear to be corresponding with HSBC. When I originally filed my FOS complaint form I didn't complete the details of the lender who ORIGINALLY sold the product because I assumed there was a general transfer of rights and liabilities. Never occurred to me that only the rights to collect the debt and not the liabilities were transferred from HFC to the BOS. What a con.

On a separate note, and bearing in mind your interest and expertise in PPI generally, I have today received a letter from Capone regarding my PPI claim with them.

Di, when I put in my PPI Questionnaire to Capone I could not recall how I'd been sold my PPI, but knew darn well that it had never been thoroughly explained to me because I have always had redunadncy/sickness cover provided at work and also had my own private PHI insurance at that time as well. So any PPI would have been bloddy useless and why would I have paid for it otherwise?

Right, well, Capone have said the PPI was sold following the phone call I made to activate my card (they always try and sell stuff at that point) and:

1. They sell PPI on a non-advice basis, they do not provide advice. Their role is to introduce the features and benefits of PPI and to provide "sufficient information" for customers to make their own consscious decision.

2. It is the consumers responsibility to know if they have existing cover and the decsion to purcahse PPI is entirely our own

3. There is no requirement to ask about existing cover if selling PPI on a non-advice basis. The requirement to understand existing cover lies with the consumer.

4. Policy disclaimers are sent following telephone sales, informing of cancellation rights, terms and conditions, exclusions etc. Disclaimer would also have been raed over the phone as well. Standard practice.

5. The PPI amounts vary due to the amount of credit and if I did not want such large PPI premioums I should not have used the credit on my card. I am therefore responsible for the size of the premium.

6. As PPI was sold on the phone there was no requirement for a signed contract. I should have looked at my first statement and requested to come off PPI at that point.

Can post up this letter and defo not hijacking Di (!!!); I raise this here as seems to be the "latest" stance taken by a leading lender on PPI which others will follow for sales made over the 'phone.

[cappo]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,
Was originally HFC Beneficial credit card, taken out in 2000. Marbles came on the scene in early 2009. Marbles have told me that HSBC flogged the PPI and has nowt to do with them. I see that the FOS appear to be corresponding with HSBC. When I originally filed my FOS complaint form I didn't complete the details of the lender who ORIGINALLY sold the product because I assumed there was a general transfer of rights and liabilities. Never occurred to me that only the rights to collect the debt and not the liabilities were transferred from HFC to the BOS. What a con.

On a separate note, and bearing in mind your interest and expertise in PPI generally, I have today received a letter from Capone regarding my PPI claim with them.

Di, when I put in my PPI Questionnaire to Capone I could not recall how I'd been sold my PPI, but knew darn well that it had never been thoroughly explained to me because I have always had redunadncy/sickness cover provided at work and also had my own private PHI insurance at that time as well. So any PPI would have been bloddy useless and why would I have paid for it otherwise?

Right, well, Capone have said the PPI was sold following the phone call I made to activate my card (they always try and sell stuff at that point) and:

1. They sell PPI on a non-advice basis, they do not provide advice. Their role is to introduce the features and benefits of PPI and to provide "sufficient information" for customers to make their own consscious decision.

2. It is the consumers responsibility to know if they have existing cover and the decsion to purcahse PPI is entirely our own

3. There is no requirement to ask about existing cover if selling PPI on a non-advice basis. The requirement to understand existing cover lies with the consumer.

4. Policy disclaimers are sent following telephone sales, informing of cancellation rights, terms and conditions, exclusions etc. Disclaimer would also have been raed over the phone as well. Standard practice.

5. The PPI amounts vary due to the amount of credit and if I did not want such large PPI premioums I should not have used the credit on my card. I am therefore responsible for the size of the premium.

6. As PPI was sold on the phone there was no requirement for a signed contract. I should have looked at my first statement and requested to come off PPI at that point.

Can post up this letter and defo not hijacking Di (!!!); I raise this here as seems to be the "latest" stance taken by a leading lender on PPI which others will follow for sales made over the 'phone.

They've an answer for everything haven't they?

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Hiya

Will come back to this, with hopefully some info.
Been very hectic at home today :tinysmile_aha_t:.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

I made a point about one of mine with it not being a non-advised sale in regards of a credit card ppi via Lloyds.
I told them non advised or not they still had a responsibility to make sure the policy was sufficient/suitable or not for the customer, and staff should have more knowledge on how these policies work, more so than the customer (afterall they are the bank staff not us)!

Shouldn't there be a limit anyway on credit cards, where they allow you so much? Even so they would still charge you even if you did not make a purchase by using the card, although not sure if this came in to affect in more recent years.

So non advised or not they had a responsibility to treat staff fairly and to ensure what they sell is suitable for the customer.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

I have responded to the bank on similar lines, as below.

I have quoted from their letter to me.

“Capital One sell PPI on a non-advised basis, we do not provide advice”

“...you met all of the eligibility criteria for this product.”

This does not remove the necessity for Capital One to ensure that the insurers – your agents (who were paying you commission) - discharged a duty of care to me as a consumer and, most importantly, as your client. In the alternative, you should have ensured that you disclosed the amount of commission you earned from the sale of this PPI to me. The payment of commission affected the way the PPI was sold; might have affected whether I took at face value what I was told concerning the PPI.

If, as an employed person, I was entitled to redundancy, sickness and accident pay from my employer then the PPI you sold me would have been useless. Furthermore, I had a private Permanent Health Insurance policy (“PHI”) and no one asked me if I had this either.

Not only was I not asked if I had existing benefits and cover, but I was also actively encouraged to take out your PPI when my intention was simply to activate my credit card. Your call centre staff had been primed to sell the PPI and no one explained the benefits and policy exclusions to me at the time.

“It is your responsibility to know whether you had existing cover in place...PPI was sold on a non-advised basis and as a result there was no requirement to ask about existing cover.”

My view is that there was an unfair relationship between us under the Consumer Credit Act. By paying unidentified insurers an undisclosed commission without my fully informed consent you were in breach of your fiduciary duty to me as my agent or because Capital One stood in the position of a fiduciary.

It was never explained to me what I would be paying for with the PPI and you were clearly incentivised to sell me the PPI when I rang up to merely activate my credit card. This gave rise to a conflict of interest. The primary duty of disclosure is on the unidentified insurers, as you allude in your letter. In my Subject Access Request the bank did not send me a true copy of the original policy disclaimer that you claim was sent to me. Ideny receiving any such document and I further deny that any such was explained to me on the telephone at the time. Otherwise I would not have taken out the PPI as I would never have benefitted from it.

Capital One could easily have included reference to the commission they received. I also believe that you failed to advise me of my cancelation rights at the time. Can I please have a transcript of this telephone conversation that took place on XX 2004. You place much reliance on this conversation and are clearly privy to information that I do not have to hand and to which I have already made specific request. Again, I would emphasise that this data was not sent to me under my Subject Access Request and as such the bank is also in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998.

“...you have complete control over the balance and the premium is directly influenced by the spending patterns and repayments.”

A flawed argument as the PPI was intended to cover the existing balance of any credit I chose to use otherwise I would not have needed it. I took out the PPI on the assumption that I could make a valid claim on it if I became unemployed, sick or had an accident. The idea was that the balance of the credit card would be repaid. My spending pattern has absolutely nothing to do with that. The fact is that the PPI sold to me was useless because I had existing cover through my employment.

“You requested PPI via the telephone on XX 2004, we are confident that PPI was not applied to your account without gaining your explicit consent when we discussed this with you on the telephone.”

The issue is not that I gave consent to the PPI but that it was mis-sold to me at the time. There is a distinct and very important difference.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

That is fab, fair and clear TDS.

They should surely see through this one now, it does however seem to be an issue more so on Credit Card PPI than Loan PPI I think though.