Is it safe to contest the CCA?

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

i would say, each case should be judged on its own merits.

There is far tooo much of this one size fits all stuff going on, where the advice is stop paying and do this and then that etc

when we look at a new job, we ascertain the background of a case, we then ask as many questions as are necessary to get the info we need, then we look at the papers and then make a decision on the case based on its facts. The problem is with these forums, is that people ( and i mean no disrespect in saying this) read someone elses thread and then go off gung ho without knowing all the facts of the case.

This is where people go horribly wrong

just my view of course.

Absolutely agree PT.

[pt2537]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

In my expereince posters were actively encouraged to stop paying, not that they read other peoples' threads and copied them per se. OTR it was standard fayre to be advised that DCAs would see you as a 'soft touch' if you continued paying during a CCA dispute.

part of the reason, was that the CCA has a provision that says you can consent to enforcement, which is indeed correct, the act is a one way application when dealing with enforceability

However, stopping paying really should only occur when the court declares the agreements unenforceable

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

I can understand people who arent paying anyway looking at the cca for a route out of the endless dca threats and try stop charging orders and CCJs,(tho I may not agree it is the best option it depends 100% on an individuals circumstances and the situation with the debt) What I can't get my head around is people who are absolutely fine paying, have perfect credit scores just stopping paying on the say so of some random internet person or some cold caling telephone caller and ending up with CCJ, more debt and a whole heap of stress completely unnecessarily. Also bugs me when peoples circumstances show that a court case and technical arguments and solicitors and stress really isnt the right way for them and they really just wanted to get a ccj with a set installment and they get encouraged into ''UEA'' instead when there was no dispte with the debt they just couldnt keep up payments and want to get it set and out their everyday thoughts.

And apologies but another site is using UEA as a debt management solution. Absolutely a disaster waiting to happen for a lot of those people, I know some people on here are friends and members of that site, but for christs sake, what are people thinking !

Okay got a bit ranting now, maybe I'll have some coffee lol.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

well, psychologically speaking, it is absolutely liberating taking thefight back to the DCAs (in particular) and OCs generally (depending on who it is), and hence why consumers want their pound of flesh for the shoddy way they are often treated. Lets face it, people fall into debt for all sorts of different reasons but no one wants to be in debt or receive 'phone calls and threat-o-grams.

BTW, what is a UEA?

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

Absolutely agree DS, it is marvellous to stick up for yourself against these companies, but think you have to pick your fights and not always take what is bandied about as the 'easy' route in places. There are so many ways to get sorted out and they all seem to have been forgotten in this UEA frenzy which IS now starting to wane thank goodness. We have always advocated using the CCA to get fairer treatment and I'm sure we have told some people to stop paying and wait for court action so I'm not departing LB from this at all.
We have always tried to stand for empowerment and standing up for yourself, get fair treatment and fair charges.

UEA - UnEnforceable Agreement.

And as always true detriment and true iredeemably unenforceability of agreements is a seperate issue altogether.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

but think you have to pick your fights and not always take what is bandied about as the 'easy' route in places. There are so many ways to get sorted out and they all seem to have been forgotten in this UEA frenzy which IS now starting to wane

yes but the problem was that newbies like myself did (and do) not have the knowledge to discern tactics like that. Sites were saying "stop paying, if there's no CCA = unenforceable" and many good folks followed that advice. Now, several months on, I can see the perils inherent in doing that.

However, there are 'UEAs' out there, presumably the older ones.

Barclaycard have not sent me a CCA for instance. That makes it "unenforceable," although as the man from the FOS told me, it makes no difference as I still owe them the money. Query then what the heck "unenforceable" actually achieves at the end of the day if the creditors can sue your ass and recover anyway.

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

Theres a difference between unenforceable and iredeemably unenforceable. In the much bandied about Thouris case - the agreement was deemed unenforceable UNTIL they find it (or reconstruct it) People seem to have ignored that fact and I think a lot is what people want to read into the CCA. Since Carey theres a number of cases, previously discontinued and labelled as WON, coming back with the agreement copies now to enforce, and unless there was a declaration under s142, they can. (in the early days a lot of peeps got lenders to write off the debt which has fueled misconceptions - but not so much any more)

Look at the cases that have properly won in court, what they have won and what the actual circumstances were.

I'm not having a go at anyone btw, I understand how the forums work and people do get in to a do this, then this, then this trap regardless of circumstances or understanding of what they are doing, and that is in part the responsibility of the forums and in part the responsibility of the people looking, desperately in some cases, for any chink of light towards the way out and being given it on a plate and not questionning. We have to understand people that come to these forums are sometimes vulnerable and using us as a last ditch after being pished off by CCCS and CAB or screwed by some dodgy CMC or DMC, and we do have a responsibility to them to give them all the options and information they need.

I recall one lady visiting here looking for help with a UEA and I asked her her entire circumstances and overall situation and what she wanted to do etc, and she went back and posted on CAG that I was a nosey bint etc. So it isnt always easy to get the overall picture. And so many cases where peeps have come on for one issue, after talking a while we have come up with a lot more issues and some much more pressing than the one they came for help with in the first place. Even anonymously people are reticent to detail their finances and circumstances much.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

yes, I agree entirely Ame

[middenmess]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

I recall one lady visiting here looking for help with a UEA and I asked her her entire circumstances and overall situation and what she wanted to do etc, and she went back and posted on CAG that I was a nosey bint etc.

Read more at: Is it safe to contest the CCA? - Page 5 - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Now that made me smile:tinysmile_grin_t:

Why do the banks need to use DCA's as it's when the account is sold onto them that the majority of problems seem to develop.

In the majority of cases that appear on various forums it has been the Bank's poor attention to important documentation from the day that people applied for credit card accounts etc. that has created the mess that we see now.

They created the problem but rather than deal with it in a responsible and professional way they wash their hands and sell these problem accounts for peanuts to DCA's whose collections methods and adherence to honesty are often questionable.

At this time it would appear that DCA's are achieving a high success rate in winning court cases as well as in squeezing often unsustainable payment agreements from debtors with threats and bullying tactics.

As it's that easy to obtain payment,what justification can the bank's rely on to sell these accounts on in the full knowledge of the unpleasant methods employed by many DCA's?

[The Debt Star]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

At this time it would appear that DCA's are achieving a high success rate in winning court cases as well as in squeezing often unsustainable payment agreements from debtors with threats and bullying tactics.

Not just the DCAs though, look at what barclaycard are up to now.

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

As it's that easy to obtain payment,what justification can the bank's rely on to sell these accounts on in the full knowledge of the unpleasant methods employed by many DCA's?

Its a wash our hands of it let them do what they will thing, works out more cost effective to get peanuts for a debt than all the chasing. If you notice all the big debts are kept by the banks for enforcement through their solicitors. All the piddly ones (well under £5k so not that piddly really) its just not worth their while money wise.

[middenmess]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

Not just the DCAs though, look at what barclaycard are up to now.

What have I missed with Bcard?

[jax007]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

PT ... you've listed a number of Barristers ... do you know of any in the London area please??

Ta
jaxx

[pt2537]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

PT ... you've listed a number of Barristers ... do you know of any in the London area please??

Ta
jaxx

sorry, i dont, the one i did know has retired this week

You would need a direct access one too, unless you are going to instruct a solicitor to instruct your counsel.

But i will say that some barristers, will travel, i had steven turner go to Mansfield from Leeds. So they do commute, but Mr Turner is very expensive

[firefly]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

Perhaps if the OC offered the Debtor a decent deal to clear the debt,the same as they sell to the DCA then in many cases the search for a reason to get an unenfoceable agreement would ease off.
I dont think its a case of not wanting to pay,as in most cases the Debtor owes the money.However ,when the debt is sold on thats when the Pond life kick in and thats when debtors search for a way to prevent the excessively vile phone calls,and threats.
But there is no doubt about it,money buys results.I wager that in many lost Lip cases lately ,if a top Barrister were to handle the case,you would win.Sorry,but that is the way it comes across.
While I'm at it:
If the legal bods want to get really imaginative,they would make 'unsecured'debts totally unsecured and no deviation via odd and old statutes.No more discrimination between householder and renter.I mean the unsecured debt starts out the same,but only one side ends up getting clobbered!
Lets face it ,they have basically changed unenforceable to forceable.So why not look into this problem?
Firefly