Is it safe to contest the CCA?

[pt2537]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

well, as it stands, Brandon v Amex does remove the 14 days argument, the High Court decreed it is not a defence to recovery.

So, we are not running the default notice arguments in these conditions, however, there is a pending judgment that could all change that, as the judge in this case, is not bound by Brandon

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

Cool same one or different one?

I believe that a DN is deemed to be served after two working days, the 25th September (the day the DN was issued) was a Friday, therefore Sat and Sun do not count. Take Mon and Tues to allow for postage and so the first day of the 14 day period starts on the Wednesday 30th September. They've undercut me on time due to the latest payment date being 12th October.

Am I correct in this thinking? And if this is correct does it add any weight to my defence etc?

Wish someone had said NO rather than YES at that question, would have saved Costa a lot of time stress and money (I dont know what costs were awarded against him but I suspect substantial)

Since when do we not have post collections or deliverys on a Saturday anyway ?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

This is nuts!

Firstly, RBS/Tesco always sent their DN's out by contract mail;
the purported date of posting was, 25th September 2009 which was a Friday;
remedy required by 12th October 2009.

By s7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 a posted document is deemed to have been served at the time it would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

By case law 14 days in that section means 14 "clear days".

However, it would appear that the DN in question was only one day short?

[MIKE770]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

2 days Royal mail, but 4 days (working days) by UKmail etc, as per Bickford Smith directive, as attached to give you an idea?

[The Debt Star]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

Thanks Mike. I think that's quite clear when it states:

1). Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
2). To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-
(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;
(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.
"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank

It has been said, that each case is decided on its own facts.

[middenmess]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

Or can we tell peeps now that the 14 days is no argument (which'd be nice actually)

One of my D/N's was received 12 days after it was dated.

Should 2 days to rectify be considered acceptable?--or even possible?

IMO

It's patently obvious that the CCA does no favours to the creditor so their chosen way to deal with it is to circumvent or in some cases to ignore it altogether.

It's fast approaching the point where any legitimate argument from a LIP will be countered or denied by the creditor's legal team with a combination of legalese blluhsit, bluff and bollcoks and this combined with some strange interpretations of statutes by Judges will make any challenge to any demand pointless.

For those LIP's who decide to fight because they are still convinced that our courts are the place where justice is obtained are likely to lose given the above unless they are very conversant with relevant case laws and all of the CCA [and able to present and argue well in court] and might well then see their initial disputed debt of a few thousands turn into a debt of several tens of thousands of pounds when costs are factored in.

Signing up to credit governed by the CCA 1974 could possibly now be seen as entering into an unfair relationship with the lender as you are committing to be bound by the terms ordained by Parliament whilst the lender is not so bound it would seem.

Engaging legal representation is fast becoming mandatory to have a good chance of 'winning' but as this comes at a cost, it is not available to all and even 'no win,no fee' often means a commitment to expensive disbursements and it's probable that law firms will only agree to representation when the likelihood of winning is more probable than possible.

When the recently announced spending cuts and associated job losses --500,000 in the public sector for example--really begin to occur, many of us and especially those on lower incomes and benefits who have loans and credit cards that they will be no longer able to service ,the siht will really hit the fan repayment wise, and it's possible that the only growth industry in the next few years will be in the Debt recovery market unfortunately.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

It's fast approaching the point where any legitimate argument from a LIP will be countered or denied by the creditor's legal team with a combination of legalese blluhsit, bluff and bollcoks

we're all ready at that stage good buddy. and I agree totally with you.

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

DATED and POSTED are different...if its deemed served on the day posted it should be dated the date it was posted, they should have a certificate of posting or evidence I presume would be accepted by court, of their normal process for posting.

We know some companies set the DN up on one date and record that date in their systems, but the letter goes off to be auto printed and posted on a few days after and the date is automatically altered by the system so it is the date of posting.

So that would differ from a company who manually typed DN's then had them sitting in theeir out tray for a few days before posting - and if you statement of truthed that you didnt receive it till day 12, the court would have to presume posting on day 9 or 10 wouldnt they unless there was a certificate of posting.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

they should have a certificate of posting or evidence .

oh come on...they don't send DNs recorded and either won't have the evidence or will make it up. either way no one will get that info out of them.

[middenmess]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

they should have a certificate of posting or evidence I presume would be accepted by court, of their normal process for posting.


Read more at: Is it safe to contest the CCA? - Page 7 - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

AFAIK

Their only evidence would be to show a screenshot of when the template letter was printed.

No 'Proof Of Posting' can be obtained from the likes of UKMail etc.


But hey,we're talking about the Bank's here, the very pillars of our society whose honesty and integrity is unchallengeable!

[The Debt Star]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

But hey,we're talking about the Bank's here, the very pillars of our society whose honesty and integrity is unchallengeable!

yep, they are nothing more than grimey casino owners in a legit disguise

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

lol. There is one case where the guy did state he hdnt received it until a specific date which meant it was posted within the 14 day period - can't remember which case it was, but as the bank didnt have evidence to the contrary his statement was accepted.

[WendyB]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

As you've mentioned in another post on the forum Ame, isn't this just a technicality, and shouldn't common sense be used? i.e if the debtor isn't intending, for whatever reason, remedy it any way, does it matter whether 12, 14 or 42 days are on the DN? Obviously if the debtor does pay in full and gets further action because of incorrect DN, then fair enough.

[middenmess]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

yep, they are nothing more than grimey casino owners in a legit disguise

I think that is a slur on casino owners!!

At least you know you're going to lose money when you step through their doors

[The Debt Star]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

yeah you're right. My apologies to the Triads and cosa nostra for comparing you to Bank Executives.