That referendum ...

[des8]

Re: That referendum ...

Sorry des but the drill is a perfect example to us mere idiots we do not relate to multinational financial frameworks the rest of us see things in simple terms.
The whole EU is too complicated with too much administration much of which we have no direct control over.

The statements about companies planning to move away mean nothing until the put plans into motion began talks with employees and all the other things that must be done in a sense its like me or you saying we are moving home until we get what we want and explore all options we are staying put maybe just talk to support the stay in sides argument

I would not claim to understand it either... but I understand enough to know I don't understand it fully and that to try and explain it and all its ramifications in terms of drills,neighbours and moving house is to oversimplify the situation.

As a member country of the EU we have to compromise. As a member country we can influence that compromise. No one country has direct control.
I don't see what is wrong with that as an idea, although in practice it might not be perfect.
As individual members of the UK we don't have a direct control over the administration. As an individual we may be able to influence our MP who in turn may have some influence.

Whatever happens, guess who will pay for it!!!!!!!!

[meellis]

Re: That referendum ...

Ok the analogy with the drill was too simplistic it wasn't the basis for thesis but we still give and have to negotiate a return. Remainers are arguing that after rebates our contributions are relatively small so maybe we should do the sums and say we will just give you that relatively small sum to be a member instead of giving them a larger sum and negotiate them giving us some back. If I wanted to further the drill analogy though I might have to hire a drill in an emergency at my cost and if I eventually get my drill back it might actually be worth less. By the way that is might in the meaning of it might be worth less , the same or more not the new meaning of might which seems to be definitely worth less. Can anyone guarantee that we will get a favourable rebate every time we re-negotiate? The irony is the whole discussion falls back to the same argument for both sides which is the definition of what each sees as the future because there are no guarantees with any of it.

[des8]

Re: That referendum ...

The problem is that the system for funding the EEC was that revenues flowed automatically to Europe from each country based on a complicated formula.
That formula created an imbalance for UK which was corrected originally by "budgetary correcting mechanisms" and eventually by means of a rebate.

The system is not that UK pays a large set amount and then gets a rebate.
There is a flow of revenue according to a formula which creates an unfair imbalance which is then corrected by a rebate.
It would be almost impossible to calculate a separate formula for each member country without creating further anomalies which would then have to be ironed out by levyng additional payments or creating other rebates.
And that is the simplified version!

[nemesis45]

Re: That referendum ...

See the current PM's speech at Farnborough imo one of the best answers to " remains" doom and gloom forecasts.

nem

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...






Unfortunately when people do the sums they take contribution minus rebates and subsidies to get the end figure but as is now being pointed out -the very reason we joined in the first place -is the benefit of free trading. The financial sector must have a ‘banking passport’ to be able to work with the rest of the EU. No membership means that financial services in the UK cannot work outside the EU. If they cannot work outside the UK there is no point in having their European base here. This industry is worth billions to the UK economy - not just the treasury by way of direct and indirect taxation but the entire economy. Take all that employment out of the country and there will be a major whole in the coffers not to mention a lot of unemployed people including the suppliers and services. If you want a simple analogy -you cannot drive without a licence and if you do not meet the criteria of the DVLA you cannot drive. People are saying we expect our financial organisations to be able to trade without these passports/licences just because we say so? It doesn’t work like that. No full EU membership means no financial trading in the EU.
The lack of trading agreements is self explanatory.
Forget how much we pay in hard cash -the issue is how much membership is worth to the economy. We then find the price we pay for membership is negligible when compared to the amount of money we make.

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

How much is membership worth to the economy?

How much is non membership worth to the economy?

How much do I and others like me which is I expect most of the population gain from membership or lose with non membership.
?
These are the answers that are needed not speculation of what may happen

[Crazy council]

Re: That referendum ...

We lost more money is the £ and stock market markdown straight after the vote than we put into the EU for a few years. How much it costs it not just a one way argument. What looks bad now, will look good if the EU starts to tumble. Italy looks like its about to break the banking rules, A few UE boarder country's have been putting fences up over the past year, due to migration, .

Theere is good and bad to the Brexit

It was always going to be bad straight after but some of that is just fear of change. The markets have recovered al lot faster than anyone could have hoped for, The currency going down can easly be a blessing, depending on how your business is set up.

I have an analogy, lol, with the only thing i can relate the brexit to

Its like leaving your partner, because you fancy playing the field a bit.

You meet, co-habitiate, exchange goods and services ( ) and do trade deal to protect teh flow of goodds and services, with the current partner. You build on what you have and together untill you have everything easy, lovely home, car, holidays all at a price you can barley, but just about afford,

Then, you take a look at your life abnd think.... is this really it,, is what i have built , restricting my freedoms ( am male, excuse my simplistic thinking ) , i only get one run at life, so should i take the chance to change. You know when you do this, that you will probably be moving from the compatible house to the small flat temporarily, that your finances will take a bashing, and in the short term, things wont be as good as they was. BUT

Your already thinking of the exchange of goods with them other nations, Putting your feelers out to make sure you dont land with to hard a bump You know that whatever, you wont be in the small flat for long, and you remeber, how littlke you would have really lived if you just stayed.

You risk, staying couped in the flat to long, but you take away some of ther restrictions that was stopping your house growing natuarly

[EXC]

Re: That referendum ...

From The Times.

Falling pound adds £250m to cost of attack helicopters.

A multibillion-dollar deal to buy 50 attack helicopters from the United States will cost more because of the collapse in the value of the pound, defence experts said yesterday.

A 13 per cent fall in the value of sterling against the dollar after Britain’s decision to leave the European Union means that a shift by the MoD to buy more equipment “off the shelf” from the US — a move that was supposed to reduce costs — could become far more expensive.

The $2.3 billion price of the Apache helicopter contract was equivalent to £1.53 billion before the referendum, but would cost £1.77 billion today.

[Amethyst]

Re: That referendum ...

Boeing picked up a new contract yesterday at Farnborough ( simplistic report there) but apparently that's 2000 new jobs in UK.

( I know nothing btw they just said literally that on 'The News' )

[enaid]

Re: That referendum ...



The number of dairy farms in England and Wales has fallen by more than 1,000 in three years, an industry body has reported.
One in ten farms has closed since June 2013, according to the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB).
North Yorkshire lost 89 farms, the highest total of any county, while Berkshire saw the highest rate of decline with a third of farms closing.
The board said it was concerned by the milk price paid to farmers.

An AHDB spokesman said some farmers were still paid about ten pence a litre less than the cost of production, despite protests by the National Farmers' Union last year.
The board said North Yorkshire had lost more than one in seven farms over the period, while Berkshire had lost seven of its 22 farms.
Yorkshire dairy farmer Jeremy Holmes said traditional dairy farming was "in a mess", with "far too much milk on the market".
He said he had survived by buying a vending machine to sell raw milk on his farm at Denby Dale near Huddersfield at £1 per litre, about three times the price paid by supermarkets.


Angus Hodge, a dairy farmer at Padworth in Berkshire, said: "The last couple of years have been a struggle with the milk price dropping but we've had to trim our costs, with eyes to the future when the milk price picks up."
Despite the closure of farms, the number of dairy cows in the UK increased by around 113,000 between 2013 and 2015 according to figures from the House of Commons library.
The report said the average herd size had risen as smaller producers left the industry.
During that period, milk prices fell by about 30%.
The report said UK milk production had increased by 8% between 2013 and 2014, mainly due to a higher yield per cow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36764592

So why do we import so much?

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

Money Lost on the stock exchange is only paper money and profit takers making a mint buying and selling means nothing as its very short term time for positive reporting like the Boeing news the markets money oil and stocks move like the tide and will do so whatever all the while their is a profit

[EXC]

Re: That referendum ...

Boeing picked up a new contract yesterday at Farnborough ( simplistic report there) but apparently that's 2000 new jobs in UK.

That would of happened regardless of Brexit though whereas the collapse of the pound wouldn't.

We import far more than we export. In May alone we imported £12.7bn more than we exported so even a minor fall in the pound costs the UK dearly and in hard cash https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statisti...Pages/OTS.aspx

Of course a weak pound helps exports in the long term but as a net importer it has a negative overall effect on our economy.

[enaid]

Re: That referendum ...

You are going to say because it's cheaper aren't you? lol

Well that would make loads of sense to a numpty like me, sell cheap milk but ruin livelihoods, put hundreds out of work and put many rural areas at risk, yes perfick economical sense lol

[Amethyst]

Re: That referendum ...

That would of happened regardless of Brexit though

Indeed, just trying to find positives.

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

The price of milk is dictated by the Supermarkets as is the price of any fresh foods .
I noticed in Morrisons they sell milk aimed at giving farmers more problem is the charge 23 pence more which the customer pays not the supermarket