Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

[Kitiara]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

If you take the title of the thread on face value "Is it morally wrong to eat horses?" then it comes down to each persons morals .... I personally don't think it is, but I wouldn't knowingly chose to do so as I just don't "fancy" it (like I don't fancy eating venison, goat, or roadkill), it's nothing to do with morals, more a personal preference. I guess that most people would also say its morally wrong to eat human flesh, and I am sure that if you had asked the survivors of the 1972 Andes plane crash that question the week before they would have said yes it is morally wrong, but in their circumstances, I wonder how many of us would have said "oh no I will die rather than eat Johnny's leg" What makes eating horses any different to eating lamb, pig or cow apart from they are seen as domestic animals the same as dogs and cats etc. If we had been brought up in a way that horse meat was part of our diet, then I am sure we would think nothing of it, its just the "thought" of it to most that makes it unacceptable rather than the morals of it.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_2702694.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21490004

[Angry Cat]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

That's a slightly off tangent story to be honest with you. My comment was based on the fact that the first we knew that Horsemeat was in fact disguised in Beef was as a result of the Irish Food Standards Agency testing. Your story is about the transport of drugs and money and how it was concealed in a shipment of horses bound for the abattoir. From us appearing to be on the same page the story above is actually nothing to do with the actual Horsemeat issue but about concealment of drugs which is not particularly new to be honest.

Here are the original questions and answers from the Irish FSA: http://www.fsai.ie/faqs/horse_pork_d..._products.html

So that we can move the topic back onto the topic at hand which is not about the manners of concealing drugs and money. There may eventually be fraud but that will interrelated to the issue of packaging Beef but containing Horse.

Clearly, leclerc you failed to read the article fully!

http://dublinopinion.com/2013/01/16/...op-this-trade/

For the avoidance of doubt:

“We have been following lorry loads of horses to abattoirs in Ireland, Britain and Europe for months now. We have watched abattoirs being opened up late at night so people can deliver lorry loads of horses and have them slaughtered in the middle of the night,” he said.
“The Irish authorities are doing nothing to stop this trade. I would urge countries who are importing horse meat from Ireland and Northern Ireland to enforce an immediate ban as the meat they are importing is not fit for human consumption. Hundreds of unwanted horses are being rounded up and sold into the food chain using false paperwork.”

[leclerc]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

Clearly, leclerc you failed to read the article fully!

http://dublinopinion.com/2013/01/16/...op-this-trade/

For the avoidance of doubt:

“We have been following lorry loads of horses to abattoirs in Ireland, Britain and Europe for months now. We have watched abattoirs being opened up late at night so people can deliver lorry loads of horses and have them slaughtered in the middle of the night,” he said.
“The Irish authorities are doing nothing to stop this trade. I would urge countries who are importing horse meat from Ireland and Northern Ireland to enforce an immediate ban as the meat they are importing is not fit for human consumption. Hundreds of unwanted horses are being rounded up and sold into the food chain using false paperwork.”

Did the article mention that these horses were went moo or did I miss something?

I read the false paperwork but the crux of the story was concealment of drugs and money rather than anything specific as yet related to the topic of fraudulent beef.

Anyway, I think Kitara has kinda said what I wanted to say so I guess I'll let others say the same thing while the links continue to go up on here....

[gravytrain]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

Clearly, leclerc you failed to read the article fully!

http://dublinopinion.com/2013/01/16/...op-this-trade/

For the avoidance of doubt:

“We have been following lorry loads of horses to abattoirs in Ireland, Britain and Europe for months now. We have watched abattoirs being opened up late at night so people can deliver lorry loads of horses and have them slaughtered in the middle of the night,” he said.
“The Irish authorities are doing nothing to stop this trade. I would urge countries who are importing horse meat from Ireland and Northern Ireland to enforce an immediate ban as the meat they are importing is not fit for human consumption. Hundreds of unwanted horses are being rounded up and sold into the food chain using false paperwork.”

It is a concern admittedly but no more so than contaminated sheep or cows being consumed, the focus of the thread seems to have shifted from, is it morally wrong to eat horses, to should the production of horse meat be better regulated. I would be very concerned if horse meat was entering the food chain without being subject to the same safeguards as any other animal, this however has nothing to do with morality.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

leclerc, once again you have clearly missed the point!

That article was almost a year ago and even then "...horses were rounded up and sold into the food chain using false paperwork".

Quite obviously a criminal racket has been going on for a long time...

I am allowed to have my opinion and I consider that it is immoral to eat horses, they deserve better that that.
And 33% of the country appear to agree!
Another poll suggests that 54% of the country would like a complete ban on meat imports, until we can be sure of its origin.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

Lastly, I will not leave another link on here. But I will leave this:

“What’s the difference between a horse and a goat?”
One of the differences, of course, is that no one ever rode a goat into battle. The sanctity of the horse is ingrained in some cultures, because of its magnificence and nobility and usefulness. Vikings, not known for their picky appetites, refused to eat horses. And starving Gauls, besieged by Julius Caesar, let theirs escape rather than slaughtering them.
And no, I wouldn't eat a goat either!

[jon1965]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

Why are vegetarians or vegans subject to more stringent moral scrutiny than others?

I think you missed the point, Vegetarians and vegans who do not eat meat on belief grounds would obviously be horrified if they found their food was being contaminated with meat products. Their morals say that.
Morals are a very personal thing and can go against society .
If you think it is morally wrong to eat horses that is part of your belief system and therefore right for you.
Some people do genuinely believe that child sexual abuse is not wrong however society has deened their moral code to be wrong

[leclerc]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

leclerc, once again you have clearly missed the point!

That article was almost a year ago and even then "...horses were rounded up and sold into the food chain using false paperwork".

Quite obviously a criminal racket has been going on for a long time...

I am allowed to have my opinion and I consider that it is immoral to eat horses, they deserve better that that.
And 33% of the country appear to agree!
Another poll suggests that 54% of the country would like a complete ban on meat imports, until we can be sure of its origin.

You have read Kitara and Eloise. No one is suggesting you do not have an opinion or that you are entitled to it. The thread originally asked the moral question of whether it is right to eat horses. Both Kitara and Eloise have given an opinion I would agree with.

I do not really care for opinion polls, since you can get an answer that you want if you ask the right question and who pay the cost of those surveys.

[Eloise01]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

Yes, Eloise gave her opinion on this issue (citing the Nazis), as did you and many others who agree with you.

You appear to be very hung up on misunderstanding what I said earlier in this thread. So let's try a different tack.

I think it is morally right to eat horses. Now what are you going to do about it???

If you are going to agree that that is my moral right, then that is fine. Morals are, as has been pointed out on numerous occasions, simply personal opinion and binding only on individuals for as long as they choose to believe that.

If you say that I do not have the right to believe that eating horse meat is morally right, then what are you going to do to stop me eating horse meat, and by what right can you do so? Because you would have moved the issue from being a matter of individual belief to one in which you believe you have a right to impose your belief on me. That means that you think your position is superior to mine and gives you the right to impose it on me. If you believe that, then you can insert any statement in place of it being "morally right to eat horses", and morals are no longer a matter of personal choices and become the terrain of the tyrant, where the ability to impose your view on others is actually the point, and not whether you are right or not.

I am allowed to have my opinion and I consider that it is immoral to eat horses, they deserve better that that.
And 33% of the country appear to agree!

I was always lousy at maths. 33% of the population consider it immoral to eat horses (source for that figure?). Doesn't that mean that 67% of the population don't agree?

[gravytrain]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

I was always lousy at maths. 33% of the population consider it immoral to eat horses (source for that figure?). Doesn't that mean that 67% of the population don't agree?

Statistics show that 99%of statistics are made up and the other 3% are flawed

[Angry Cat]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

I voted in the poll, 33% would not eat horse meat and certainly not knowingly and;
34% would prefer NOT to. So, sorry your math is way off!

The 34% presumably voted that way because they thought that they were purchasing beef burgers, beef lasagna or any other revolting ready made processed meal labelled as, BEEF. Clearly, these individuals didnt want commuted horse in any form.

Another poll stated the 54% of the population want a complete ban on meat imports until one can be sure of its origin!

[MissFM]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

You appear to be very hung up on misunderstanding what I said earlier in this thread. So let's try a different tack.

I think it is morally right to eat horses. Now what are you going to do about it???

If you are going to agree that that is my moral right, then that is fine. Morals are, as has been pointed out on numerous occasions, simply personal opinion and binding only on individuals for as long as they choose to believe that.

If you say that I do not have the right to believe that eating horse meat is morally right, then what are you going to do to stop me eating horse meat, and by what right can you do so? Because you would have moved the issue from being a matter of individual belief to one in which you believe you have a right to impose your belief on me. That means that you think your position is superior to mine and gives you the right to impose it on me. If you believe that, then you can insert any statement in place of it being "morally right to eat horses", and morals are no longer a matter of personal choices and become the terrain of the tyrant, where the ability to impose your view on others is actually the point, and not whether you are right or not.



I was always lousy at maths. 33% of the population consider it immoral to eat horses (source for that figure?). Doesn't that mean that 67% of the population don't agree?

Pax Eloise! You can eat whatever you like! It's none of my business.

I believe, though, that you have also made completely unjustified assumptions from my statement of personal morality - where did I ever say anyone else had to do as I choose to do? I would, though, regard it as my moral right to step in to prevent cruelty to any animal, by the way, or to any human being if the opportunity arose. That isn't a matter of taking "moral high ground" but one of acting according to conscience. Qv Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".

Because I was so cross at being associated with views that I do not hold and with which no sane person could agree I have read and reread the posts above to see where you got your interpretation of what was said and remain baffled that a mind as intelligent and agile as yours could have seen what you did there; but I'm no doubt being thick - wouldn't be the first time.

As already said - our only real disagreement is on the nature of the psyche of the horse (again -put in a way that was clearly open to misunderstanding) and that is not something that can be resolved by logic or argument, however elegant - it is a matter of personal experience and belief.

Your own example - of the rise of the Third Reich - is a perfect illustration of how clever rhetoric and having people agree with you does not always equate with being right.

Peace!

[jon1965]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

Angry Cat
You say that 67% of the population would either not eat horse or prefer not to. That is very very different to thinking it immoral.
There are many things I would rather not do but that doesn't mean it is immoral. Getting married is something I would rather not do but that doesn't mean I think it's immoral

[Eloise01]

Re: Morally wrong to eat horses!!!

I voted in the poll, 33% would not eat horse meat and certainly not knowingly and;
34% would prefer NOT to. So, sorry your math is way off!

The 34% presumably voted that way because they thought that they were purchasing beef burgers, beef lasagna or any other revolting ready made processed meal labelled as, BEEF. Clearly, these individuals didnt want commuted horse in any form.

Another poll stated the 54% of the population want a complete ban on meat imports until one can be sure of its origin!

So in fact nobody said it was immoral to eat horse meat. They said they wouldn't eat it, which is an entirely different thing. I won't eat rabbit but I do not consider it morally wrong for others to do so. And actually there was nothing wrong with my maths - (a) you quoted a single statistic of those who would not eat horsemeat, and (b) those were the only people who said they would not - preference not to is not the same thing as refusal, and it is still not the same thing as claiming it as "morals". I am not entertaining guessing games as to why people answered the way they did, I could equally "guess" that anyone who said they would not eat horsemeat were not tested as to the circumstances in which they would not eat horsemeat. I doubt they were asked, for example, whether they would eat horsemeat if they were starving and had no other source of food. Because they might answer very differently then.

But I agree with you that any form of commuted meat is, in my opinion, revolting, whatever it is made of. Speaking personally I wouldn't buy it whether it was "beef" or not - although I must admit to a certain surprise that there is that much meat in the stuff in the first place.