OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

[showergirl]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Just a note, to say thanks to the beagles team that are attending and endeavoring to get the news here first, I know you all have your own lives so thank you for taking the time and expense on behalf of us all.

Lumi x

I would like to second that, I will be glued to my computer waiting for your updates lets hope it is good news

[Dougal16T]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Good evening all, :beagle:

I just want to say a very big thank you to LB for 'being there for me', and with me in my hour of need. Where would I have been without you....? Answers on a postcard.

I have made some good friends as a result of my membership of this site, and will continue my membership for the forseeable future ( I am 60 years of age...!! I do however feel like an 18 year old, but where can I find one this time of night??...!! - apologies that was a very old joke......)

Seriously there have been so many cases of severe financial hardship, that I have been bought to tears, by the attitude of those who profess to care for the customer, and those who welcome new customers with hollow promises, and empty gestures.

I am sorry to say this but I hope and believe that they will get what they deserve in the fullness of time.

My sincerest and warmest wishes to everyone on LB - and again Many Thanks.

As always

Dougal

[EXC]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

The Supreme Court blog site expects that the judgment will be broadcast, according to the latest entry.

UKSCblog | The Supreme Court of the United Kingdom

[kev2b3]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Hope you all the best for tomorrow . Its a shame i could'nt make it down there myself i would have bought you all a meal, least i could do for all the valuable help you guys have given me over the past two years. Second thoughts we are talking london prices, forget the meal i would have brought a few sandwiches for you guys to share.

lets hope it goes our way and we all have smiles on our faces all day

[Sapphire]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

I wish I could be there too, but alas I just cannot get away from the office. I'll be online though and waiting for a phone call too.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

I think many people have covered a lot of points today so I'll repeat them anyway with my own thoughts.
I think I am as nervous as anyone is and the only thoughts I have is that tomorrow is a big battle in the war but the war isn't won and the fighting hasn't ceased. I couldn't sleep last night and many things went over and over in my head.
What if the banks' won? What would the bank charges campaign mean to me with that scenario? What have I gained from it all? What have I lost(unfortunately that question I knew the answer to)?
These things remain in my head and hopefully they will disappear when I get my text alert from someone, anyone who can tell me that this big battle is done and the banks' appeal has failed.
All I can urge anyone who is on the internet is to READ as much original information as possible. Don't accept my opinion or anyone's opinion but read was has factually gone on(you won't read mine cos I am going to try and avoid it all and won't be on any forum tomorrow after the verdict has been given out).
The Supreme Court will have the judgement, the OFT will update questions and answers on the test case and maybe County Courts might be given advice.
I guess if the OFT wins then we all deserve a beer/bar of chocolate/or whatever treat you want(I'm not paying btw before anyone asks).

Good luck to the OFT, Thanks to EXC who so far has proven fantastic in insite and in the written word in the early stages when our hope was perhaps swaying back in January 2008 and to everyone that has contributed thus far.

[NeedMoneyToo]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

With all due respect for all the hard work from the members of this forum.
I just cannot see what everyone is so excited about?
Even if the judgment goes in the OFT's favour, what have we gained?
Nothing, we just wasted all that time to go back to the stage when Jude Smith gave his ruling.
The banks will ride the justice system for years to come.
Perhaps the timeframe of "2015" is more realistic then we think, after all.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

With all due respect for all the hard work from the members of this forum.
I just cannot see what everyone is so excited about?
There is no appeal against whether bank terms can be assessed for fairness. It is, in the scheme of things the half way point

Even if the judgment goes in the OFT's favour, what have we gained?
You mean if the banks' appeal fails as they are the ones disputing that terms can be assessed and not the OFT.
Nothing, we just wasted all that time to go back to the stage when Jude Smith gave his ruling.

The banks will ride the justice system for years to come.
Perhaps the timeframe of "2015" is more realistic then we think, after all.

This is what the OFT said in 2006
"Only a court can decide finally whether a term is unfair, or at what level default charges should be set to meet the requirements of the UTCCRs. It should be kept in mind that other enforcers may apply for injunctions under the UTCCRs and that the UTCCRs may be relied upon by consumers in private claims."

There are people who want a negotiated settlement and there are people who want the matter dealt with for years to come.
Remember, even if it goes to 2015, that interest rate every year of 8% is very nice

[Budgie]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Banks await overdraft charges ruling in Supreme Court


Lord Phillips will hand down the crucial judgement

The Supreme Court will hand down a judgement on Wednesday that could lead to billions of pounds being refunded to millions of bank customers.
Lord Phillips will reveal the Court's decision on an appeal by seven banks and the Nationwide building society.
They want to stop the Office of Fair Trading using consumer protection rules to investigate the fairness of their charges for unauthorised overdrafts.
The decision follows more than two years of test case litigation.
So far the banks have lost at both the High Court and Appeal Court stages of the test case.
Both of those courts agreed with the OFT that it has the power, under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCR), to scrutinise the fairness of overdraft fees.
But the banks have refused to give in, as about £2.6bn of annual income is at stake.
THE STORY SO FAR...
Nearly a million people have claimed for the return of their unauthorised overdraft charges but their cases are on hold
If the banks win their latest appeal, these people are unlikely to get any money back
If the banks lose, then the legal arguments should move on to a key stage - a case to determine whether these charges were fair or not
Only then will people have a clearer picture as to whether billions of pounds will be handed back to customers

At the House of Lords appeal during the summer, the decision on which is now being handed down, the banks argued that the legislation simply does not give the OFT the powers it thinks it has.
OFT victory?
If the OFT wins then it will open the door for it to announce that overdraft charges are indeed unfair, when it reveals the result of its parallel investigation into them soon.
In theory that should trigger an automatic refund of all banks charges that have been levied since July 2001.
Some campaigners have argued that any refunds should stretch back even further, to the start of 1995, when the UTCCR regulations first entered UK law.
The banks, OFT, judiciary and the Financial Services Authority (FSA) agreed the test case procedure to resolve these legal issues in July 2007.
But that agreement also envisaged a further round of legal hearings in the High Court.
This would decide if the OFT was right to say bank charges had been unfair in the past, and would decide exactly what level of charges might be fair in the future.
The government is fearful that this second stage of litigation could last until 2015, and over the summer called publicly for both sides to come up with a much quicker way of resolving the issue.
The government is now the leading shareholders in Lloyds Banking Group, and RBS, which owns Nat-West.
It may be able to exert pressure on the banks to cut a deal with the OFT and not to take up their right to have all issues of fairness decided by another long drawn out series of court hearings.
Bank victory?
If the banks were to win their appeal, it would completely undermine the efforts of the OFT for the past three years.
Whether it is fair or not, we may have to come to terms with having to pay for our banking, but if we do there will be increased expectations on levels of service and quality of product


Andrew Hagger, Moneynet

It would also be a crushing defeat for the attempts of campaign groups and media organisations which have encouraged people to launch refund claims in the county courts.
The OFT has claimed that even if it loses, it will still try to use other powers, perhaps by instigating a full competition commission enquiry, to attack overdraft fees.
But a loss in the Supreme Court would amount to the second significant legal defeat for the OFT.
At the High Court it was told that bank charges could not, as was once widely claimed, be regarded as unfair penalties under common law.
The losing side, whoever it turn out to be, could in theory try to take the issue to the European Court of Justice
However such a route of appeal is not automatic.
The Supreme Court is the gate keeper for such appeals and can only authorise one if there is an area of uncertainty about legislation derived, like the UTCCR, from European law.
At the House of Lords hearing neither the OFT nor the banks expressed any enthusiasm for a European appeal as it would string out the test case by at least another year.
Monthly fees
The test case has led to the freezing of more than one million claims by bank customers for the return of their fees, with their claims being put on hold either at the banks, in the court system, or at the Financial Ombudsman Service.
An OFT victory would lead to pressure for the stay on those cases to be lifted.
Any organised refund would affect all bank account holders who have paid overdraft fees in the past few years, not just those who have chosen so far to demand one.
A consequence of the OFT winning at the Supreme Court is that it would probably lead to demands from the OFT for banks to change the way they levy overdraft fees in the future.
The banks may be told to slash them to a level much closer to the maximum £12 a time levied by credit cards companies on defaulting customers.
This could lead in turn to a return to the old system of monthly or annual bank account charges, even for customers who stay in credit, as the banks seek to recoup any lost revenue.
"Whether it is fair or not, we may have to come to terms with having to pay for our banking, but if we do there will be increased expectations on levels of service and quality of products," said Andrew Hagger, of Moneynet.

[enaid]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

With all due respect for all the hard work from the members of this forum.
I just cannot see what everyone is so excited about?
Even if the judgment goes in the OFT's favour, what have we gained?
Nothing, we just wasted all that time to go back to the stage when Jude Smith gave his ruling.
The banks will ride the justice system for years to come.
Perhaps the timeframe of "2015" is more realistic then we think, after all.

What have we gained?
Well I for one believe we have gained a tremendous amount already, even if things don't go our way today.
Thousands have been helped with their financial problems, some heart breaking and very much life changing.
Thousands more have learned they can fight these people , they do have a choice and it is all down to sites like this one where ordinary people have given time and effort to help them.
So please think again when you ask "What have we gained".

[mollymalone]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Fingers crossed for today
A BIG THANK-YOU to all you knowledgable legal beagles who have helped "ordinary" peolple like me, keeping us well-informed and hepling us to dare take on the big nasty banks!!!:tinysmile_twink_t2::beagle:
Will be glued to my pc at 945 today
Good luck everyone.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Just getting my seat ready............my trip to the tip to take the duck poop/straw can wait.

Best of luck to the OFT and to all of us as.........and in answer to what we have gained as posted by NeedMoneyToo, we have all played a massive amount in the charges campaign however big or small and a win for the OFT is a step further towards everyone getting back what is rightfully their and for that reason alone its historical.

Oh and bye the way I finally whooped Welcome Finance the other day they refunded me the mis-sold PPI to the tune of £1244 happy days :-)

[EXC]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

I'm in the building - like Fort Knox getting through security - and I've got a press pass for the courtroom whcih opens at 9.15.

Will keep you posted when I can.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Thanks for being there EXC good work as ever.

[Jester]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Just for everyone to realise,

BBC News 24 ARE live at the Supreme Court and have just indicated that they will be live at the Supreme Court when the announcement is made at 9.45am. Whether that means we get a live stream of the handing down, or they will simply report on it live is not clear !!