Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

[Glenn UK]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

If they don't appeal, what happens next? What does that mean for claims that are stuck int he court system??

The OFT assess their charges for fairness and at some stage make an announcement of thier finidngs.

Could take another 6 or 9 months perhaps more before the announcement by the OFT i reckon.

Glenn

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

The OFT assess their charges for fairness and at some stage make an announcement of thier finidngs.

Could take another 6 or 9 months perhaps more before the announcement by the OFT i reckon.

Glenn

I think they have done that bit already .

[Curlyben]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I think they have done that bit already .

That's my feeling as well.
After all the OFT have already written to the Banks saying they believe their charges to be unfair.
I'm sure the OFT are simply waiting for the out come of the test case before publishing their findings in this and also PCA.

Admittedly what happens after that is anyones guess.
Will the Banks start yet another test case to set the level of charges or contest the OFT's assessment of fairness.
After all this one is concerned with the application of UTCCR and whether the OFT can use it against the Banks.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

You can bet your bottom dollar that they will submit their application to appeal to the HoL's and that it will be late and that the application will still be considered although late. We all know the banks think they can simply do what they want when they want, and I can't see them changing a habbit of a lifetime.

[Glenn UK]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I think they have done that bit already .

Sorry what i meant was they put some figures on it since although they may have formed a view, unless the banks have given them costs then the OFT havent acutally assessed them. n I doubt the banks have given them costs since they disputed the ofts righ to assess their chsrges.

The trial was to determine if the charges were subject to a test of fairness not to determine if they were fair.

The process will i suspect be the same as for the CC companies with the oft making a pronouncement about what they consider to be the max cost before they deem somehting unfair.

Glenn

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

The process will i suspect be the same as for the CC companies with the oft making a pronouncement about what they consider to be the max cost before they deem somehting unfair.

Glenn

The £12 credit card threshold was never about fairness. ''a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the threshold.''

The bank charges process is a very different process and will go much further than the credit card threshold. Some kind of charging limit will have to be imposed of course but this will be based on law rather than the threat of investigatory action.

[Glenn UK]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

The £12 credit card threshold was never about fairness. ''a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the threshold.''

The bank charges process is a very different process and will go much further than the credit card threshold. Some kind of charging limit will have to be imposed of course but this will be based on law rather than the threat of investigatory action.

I am not sure why you think that banks are any different to CC companies when it comes to the fairness of their charges?

So far the OFT has re-enforced their right to assess the banks charges for fairness that is all.

I really do doubt that the oft is interested in justice in the sense of forcing banks to go through a long and costly assessment in detail of their charging regime.

It would be nice, but in the real world this is about getting a workable solution which the oft can say is 'fair' and the banks can live with.

The banks will try to broker the best deal they can with the least cost to them and of course the minimum embarrassment

Incidentally the threshold proposed by the OFT was only about fairness. Just because it was not subject to a court case doesn't mean it was not brought about by the application of the UTCCR.

We could argue all day about what the OFT will or wont do, in the end the outcome will be more or less the same. They will issue a report which sets out what they believe is fair, whether it is for each bank based on a formal assessment, or whether its something more akin to the assessment of the CC companies with a single threshold i cant be sure.

The only thing i am sure of is that the banks will want to get the best deal (i.e. the highest threshold) and the OFT Will want to settle it as quickly and easily as possible.

JMHO

Glenn

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I'm not suggesting bank or cc charges are any more or less fair, only the difference in the processes in challenging them.

The OFT didn't apply UTCCR in the credit card threshold but will apply it with bank charges - that's the differnce.

If the OFT were prepared to settle for just a simple credit card style threshold there would be no value in holding a test case in order to establish legal clarity - specifically stage 2 of the litigation.

I personally believe the OFT are committed to doing this properly and aren't interested in a quick fix - hence the 2007 announcement 'No quick fix''. Lets hope so anyway.

[StoneLaughter]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

The CC threshold wasn't about fairness to consumers at all - it was to (and I quote) "...move the industry towards compliance..." and it was very clearly stated by the OFT that it was an INTERIM measure.

[Glenn UK]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

you want to put a shilling on whther the charges will end up in court for assessment or the OFT will accept a 'CC' style agreement?

My view is that the OFT are a bunch of prgamatists and not idealists.

Cheap will win in the end!!

The assessment will be informal and a threshold figure released which will be of the order of £12.00 i suspect.


The OFT announcement will have the same caveats and the average consumer will claim back the difference. There will be people like us who will ask for the lot back and get it i suspect.

JMHO

Glenn

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

you want to put a shilling on whether the charges will end up in court for assessment or the OFT will accept a 'CC' style agreement?

My view is that the OFT are a bunch of prgamatists and not idealists.

Cheap will win in the end!!

The assessment will be informal and a threshold figure released which will be of the order of £12.00 i suspect.


The OFT announcement will have the same caveats and the average consumer will claim back the difference. There will be people like us who will ask for the lot back and get it i suspect.

JMHO

Glenn

Glenn, I'm game. A shilling it is(donated of course to your favourite charity).

[Amethyst]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I don't think they can or will do the same as credit cards...they could have done that in April 06. Once the bank charges are sorted they hopefully will go back for a declaration of historical c/c charges.

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

you want to put a shilling on whther the charges will end up in court for assessment or the OFT will accept a 'CC' style agreement?

My view is that the OFT are a bunch of prgamatists and not idealists.

Cheap will win in the end!!

The assessment will be informal and a threshold figure released which will be of the order of £12.00 i suspect.


The OFT announcement will have the same caveats and the average consumer will claim back the difference. There will be people like us who will ask for the lot back and get it i suspect.

JMHO

Glenn

It wouldn't be fair of me to bet on a horse that's already run. The litigation agreement is such that there must be a stage 2 litigation. Again, if the OFT were to take the cc route it wouldn't be much of a 'test case' would it?

[Bankstormer]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

This is better than Corrie!

[TANZARELLI]

Re: <i><b><span style="">Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National

It will be intersting to see what figure is finally agreed on. I would imagine that the banks would argue whatever it is suggested and there will be a lot of further discussions before it may be taken to a judge to decide on the final amounts.
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PS whats happened to the thread title?