Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

[CaptainChaos]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Thank you everyone.

I have (as instructed), put the form in a folder for my son & will wait for the letter with court date.

That's probably going to take a while, but I will go with him to court & try to lessen the damage.

And yes, of course, I will report back as to what happens.

Thanks again

Ian

[wales01man]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

He needs be grateful you are on his side and helping good luck hope its as lenient as can be and a lesson for him never to forget

[Openlaw15]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Thank you everyone.

I have (as instructed), put the form in a folder for my son & will wait for the letter with court date.

That's probably going to take a while, but I will go with him to court & try to lessen the damage.

And yes, of course, I will report back as to what happens.

Thanks again

Ian

Hello, Ian

Wait a minute, what form, where, and why? According to whom and based on what reasons, alternatively according to which (legal) authorities? You will lesson the damage, how? Are you a lawyer? If you don't put in a persuasive argument your son most certainly will be banned from driving. You can either listen to the Legalbeagles who have never studied a day of criminal law or you can chose to listen to others opinions such as (but not limited to) self who have. It's not about grovelling it's about arguing points in law, persuading the court why it would be unequitable to punish owing to X, Y, Z. Please stop looking at this situation as though it were concrete, on the contrary law is not concrete it is flexible and open to arguments.

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

He is pleading guilty to the speeding after doing a deal to remove the failure to furnish before that. A relatively straight forward affair. There is no legal argument and he won't be banned. The licence will be revoked at a later date.

M1

[des8]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Hello, Ian

Wait a minute, what form, where, and why? According to whom and based on what reasons, alternatively according to which (legal) authorities? You will lesson the damage, how? Are you a lawyer? If you don't put in a persuasive argument your son most certainly will be banned from driving. You can either listen to the Legalbeagles who have never studied a day of criminal law or you can chose to listen to others opinions such as (but not limited to) self who have. It's not about grovelling it's about arguing points in law, persuading the court why it would be unequitable to punish owing to X, Y, Z. Please stop looking at this situation as though it were concrete, on the contrary law is not concrete it is flexible and open to arguments.

I just keep in mind that opinions are just that.
Everytime two lawyers stand in court to argue their opinions, one loses.
And there have been l cases on LB where posters have argued their opinion in civil court against a barrister (presumably qualified) and won

[Openlaw15]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

He is pleading guilty to the speeding after doing a deal to remove the failure to furnish before that. A relatively straight forward affair. There is no legal argument and he won't be banned. The licence will be revoked at a later date.

M1

What do you mean his licence will be revoked at a later date? When will his licence be revoked, what you're saying is just too ambiguous. Who so advised to plead guilty to the speeding offence, in my view his speed was within the CPS charging threshold guidelines anyway. If he has already pleaded guilty to speeding, in which he has on the facts, how is this relevant except to use mitigating circumstances overall, ie where a revocation is the potentially or foreseeable outcome?

What about this failure to identify his son as the driver in terms of this offence? What deal has been done, done with whom, the CPS?

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

No deal has been done, yet. He is going to do a common deal on the day of the first hearing to plead guilty to the speeding if they drop the failure to furnish. They almost always do. They won't if the son argues about the speed which would be doomed to failure anyway.

The court notifies DVLA who then send a letter to revoke.

I suggested this was the best way to deal with it, and it is.

M1

[Openlaw15]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

I just keep in mind that opinions are just that.
Everytime two lawyers stand in court to argue their opinions, one loses.
And there have been l cases on LB where posters have argued their opinion in civil court against a barrister (presumably qualified) and won

Civil and criminal law issues are distinguished by the fact the first in legal authority does not affect liberty, ie liberty to drive. In civil law the claimant has to prove whereas in criminal law the state has the burden of proof. There are some ( I would go as far as saying, many in fact: each has their niche) talented people and brilliant legal minds on the legalbeagles' forum here as I have alluded on a number of occasions. However, criminal law is rather more serious and to some extent could be a constitutional matter in the strictest sense of the word. i would never look for obvious answers in criminal law matters, it requires a more thinking outside the box approach. Strict liability means there are implied points of law as a 'get-out' clause as it were. It is also a legal point that mens rea (guilty mind) is presumed unless the statute per se state the contrary.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

No deal has been done, yet. He is going to do a common deal on the day of the first hearing to plead guilty to the speeding if they drop the failure to furnish. They almost always do. They won't if the son argues about the speed which would be doomed to failure anyway.

The court notifies DVLA who then send a letter to revoke.

I suggested this was the best way to deal with it, and it is.

M1

What is the effect of revocation, how long will the licence be revoked? There is never in my view a point in law that, if used well, cannot succeed. Not every person thinks the same, I know for one I look at law like a presumption but not an eventuality unless I have to concede. Others look at the law as a verbatim finality in the first instance.

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

The effect of revocation is that you need to resit a test to continue driving. It probably costs less than having a ban for insurance purposes and you can drive again much sooner than 6 months time.

M1

[wales01man]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

A young lad who up until appearing in Court has failed to follow the basic rules of being open and honest and ignoring legal questions regarding who was driving
standing there as a layperson trying to quote legalise which to him probably does not make sense must be a recipe for failure.

Time to eat humble pie and grovel magistrates as seen in many local court cases tend to ignore most pleas and impose heavy fines costs and points to young drivers if t=he really wants to have the best chance in court needs to get a Solicitor not advice from here which is based on experience and research by posters if
OPENLAW you think you are better than others on here please contact the OP and appear for them if and when this comes to court

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

A solicitor to speak to the prostitution and arrange such a deal is a gross waste of money.

This is about as simple as it gets. Once inside the court, in front of the court, "guilty" is the only word required. How hard is that ? A lot easier than passing a test again.

M1

[Openlaw15]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

A young lad who up until appearing in Court has failed to follow the basic rules of being open and honest and ignoring legal questions regarding who was driving
standing there as a layperson trying to quote legalise which to him probably does not make sense must be a recipe for failure.

Time to eat humble pie and grovel magistrates as seen in many local court cases tend to ignore most pleas and impose heavy fines costs and points to young drivers if t=he really wants to have the best chance in court needs to get a Solicitor not advice from here which is based on experience and research by posters if
OPENLAW you think you are better than others on here please contact the OP and appear for them if and when this comes to court

I am not qualified and only solicitors, barristers, legal executives can stand before courts, ie audience rights. I don't think am better than everyone else I seem to think different from the conventional view on here, perhaps.

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A solicitor to speak to the prostitution and arrange such a deal is a gross waste of money.

This is about as simple as it gets. Once inside the court, in front of the court, "guilty" is the only word required. How hard is that ? A lot easier than passing a test again.

M1

How soon could the son be driving in real terms. Is there a period where he has to wait to pass his test?

[CaptainChaos]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

Wohhhh

I didn't expect a "don't do that do this no guarantee for anything" thing here.

I have been advised to do certain things, which seem to be viable. I am (fairly) law abiding, so I have no idea about any of this other than my son was a doughnut & drove too fast (twice) by a static camera, then ignored the initial 'letter', so it has escalated to either a "guilty" or "not guilty" plea via post, or as Mystery1 has said, wait until a court summons appears & then try to speak to the prosecutor to say that my son will plead guilty to the speeding, if the failure to provide driver details offence is removed.

The 2nd speeding offence will take him up to 6 points, and as he is a new driver, it is highly likely that he will get his licence revoked for 6 months or so. His insurance will increase & he will be a miserable little monster for quite some time.

I don't know if I can say anything on his behalf in the courtroom, but he is 21 and really should be able to talk nicely to the magistrate(s) about the fact that he has just started a new job in a car home & needs his car to be able to look after the old people!!

Yeah I know - crap excuse & he really needs to learn the hard way to teach him a lesson. I am just trying to reduce the inevitable so he doesn't lose the will to live!

[mystery1]

Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information

I am not qualified and only solicitors, barristers, legal executives can stand before courts, ie audience rights. I don't think am better than everyone else I seem to think different from the conventional view on here, perhaps.

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How soon could the son be driving in real terms. Is there a period where he has to wait to pass his test?

Depends how busy the local test centres are.

M1