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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
It's not an appeal, it's a reopening of the case.
M1
It's not an appeal, it's a reopening of the case.
M1
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
M1 Chances of a better result?Comment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
If the weekly income is well under the sum used for calculations, pretty good. For the offences, really depends on the Mag as some will view ignorance as a good reason to help and others will see the son as a pest.
M1Comment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
Okay guys - I found the "Tyre" letter. Here is a precis of it.
Offence date & time: 10/12/2015 00:50
Letter Issue Date: 05/01/2016
Offence Description: Use a passenger vehicle with tyres with insufficient tread - less than 1.6mm
Dear xxxx,
I refer to the above referenced alleged motoring offence for which you were stopped at the time by a police officer.
We have now confirmed that the matter cannot be settled by attending an educational workshop .... more stuff about that ....
You may settle out of court by acceptinga Fixed Penalty of £100.00 and 3 penalty point endorsement ... To comply ... you must pay the fine within 28 days of this letter's issue date.
Failure to meet the Fixed Penalty requirements would result in your case being processed for a court hearing for wgich you would be sent a summons in due course.
As you can see, the original (the police officer apparently told my son that he would report him for ONE tyre) date was December 2015 & the letter sent in January 2016! That's quite a while to wait for a court summons. I don't know.Comment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
If you have the letter why did he not pay up I expect they will ask same ignoring letters from police/courts is why he is where he is now.Comment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
The police have 6 months after the date of offence in which to lay information before the courts.
The courts do not have a time limit so the summons may not be received for some while
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
This is criminal law if it is a Magistrate Court.Originally posted by wales01man View Post
This is taken from Insight on West law (legal database), UK.
Question: what is the procedure for pleading?
"Before a Magistrates' Court, on a Summary Trial, the Justices' Legal Adviser reading the charge to the accused and asking how he pleads (s.9(1) Magistrates' Courts Act 1980). A slightly different procedure exists in relation to an either way offence (s.17A MCA 1980); again the charge is read to the accused and the accused is asked how he would plead if the case proceeded to trial (he is also warned that if he were to indicate a Guilty plea he may be committed to the Crown Court for sentence by the Crown Court). If the accused indicates that he would plead guilty then the Court continues as if s. 9 of the Act were complied with. If the accused either indicates he would plead Not Guilty or makes no indication the Magistrates' Court determines Mode of Trial (s.18 MCA 1980). Unlike in a Crown Court, in a Magistrates' Court, save where there is a statutory exemption to the rule the only pleas that may be entered are those of Guilty or Not Guilty, there is not the option of pleading to an alternative offence; the way round this is to charge the accused separately with the alternative offence (providing any statutory time limit has not expired)."
Question: What is the effect of pleading guilty, even if I didn't plead at all - or i didn't turn up or didn't answer any letters I was sent through the post.
and from the same source, the following:
"Guilty Plea
1. Effect: A plea of Guilty is an admission of guilt of the offence; no trial takes place as the accused has been convicted by his own confession."
Question: what if I was pressured into making a guilt plea by my solicitor or the Magistrate Court?
"Advance Indication Of Sentence: It is axiomatic that the decision as to plea must be that of the accused who must make his decision with pressure whether from his advocate or the judiciary. In the Crown Court an accused is able to seek an advance indication of sentence before entering a guilty plea; the procedure is set out in R. v Goodyear (Karl) [2005] EWCA Crim 888; [2005] 1 W.L.R. 2532, known as Goodyear ; though the Judge is not able to make an uninvited indication R. v Nightingale (Danny Harold) [2013] EWCA Crim 405; [2013] 2 Cr. App. R. 7; the furthest a Judge may go is to remind the advocate that he is entitled if the accused wishes, to seek a Goodyear indication."
Question: If I plead guilty, will my sentence be reduced?
"7. Credit For Plea: Where an accused pleads Guilty, his sentence is reduced from what it would have been had he had a trial. The principles can be found in the Sentencing Guidelines Council "Reduction in Sentence for a Guilty Plea" Definitive Guideline (Revised 2007). An accused pleading at the "first reasonable opportunity" will be entitled to a recommended one-third whereas if he were to plead "at the door of the court or after the trial has begun" he would have his sentenced reduced by a recommended one tenth. The Court of Appeal in R. v Caley (David) [2012] EWCA Crim 2821; (2013) 177 J.P. 111 reviewed when the "first reasonable opportunity" is.
From a different source for miscarriages of Justice, Insight at West law.
Question: What if there has been a miscarriage of justice and I want another hearing by the Magistrates' Court. Alternatively, is the law strict or lenient and the Magistrate will just change their mind if I make an application under section 142?
"Appeals from the Magistrates' and Crown Court: Section 108 of the Magistrates' Court Act 1980 gives the right to appeal against conviction and sentence to the Crown Court if the appellant did not plead guilty; if he did, the right of appeal is restricted to sentence only unless the plea was an equivocal one. If this is found to be the case. the Crown Court must remit the case back to the magistrates' with a direction to allow the defendant to change his plea and then rehear the case under s.48(2)(b) Senior Courts Act 1981 (see R. v Plymouth Justices Ex p. Hart [1986] Q.B. 950). The process of appeal is governed by the Criminal Procedure Rules 2014/1610 Pt 63 and leave is not required as long as the appellant appeals within 21 days. An appeal is a re-hearing of the case (see s.79(3) Senior Courts Act 1981) and the Crown Court can confirm, reverse, or vary any part of the decision appealed against, remit the matter to the Magistrates with its opinion or make such order in the matter as it thinks just (s.48 Senior Courts Act 1981).
These wide powers may be contrasted with appeals from the Crown Court which are much more limited in comparison. There is a 28 day time limit after conviction to appeal which can be extended at the discretion of the Court of Appeal, the Registrar, or the Deputy Registrar (s.18 Criminal Appeal Act 1968 (CAA); Criminal Procedure Rules r.68.2). If a defendant wishes to appeal outside of this time then permission must be granted (s.18(3) CAA 1968; Criminal Procedure Rules r.65.4). An application for leave is heard by a single High Court Judge ( s.31 Criminal Appeal Act 1968) and if that is refused it may be renewed to the full court of three judges (Criminal Procedure Rules r.65.5). The trial judge may certify the case for appeal under s.1(2)(b) CAA 1968 though this is rare due to the Court of Appeal discouraging it for all but exceptional cases (R. v Williams (Paul David) (1992) 156 J.P. 325; R. v Bansal (Sundeep Singh) [1999] Crim. L.R. 484)."
Last edited by Openlaw15; 21st June 2016, 09:45:AM.Comment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
As [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] has said, the time limit has expired. However, the prosecution might be underway so phone the court and ask.Originally posted by CaptainChaos View Post
M1Comment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
It is very unlikely that the Magistrate has the power to overturn its decision. If the magistrate tried to overturn it, ie rehear the case it's only likely to because of their own mistake, as the magistrate's powers could otherwise be subject to a complaint by the prosecution or to a judicial review hearing. It would not look particular good for the prosecution if the decision was overturned. Given the rigid nature of criminal courts even as low as the Magistrate's it would be very rare for them to look at the case again. If you're going to make this type of appeal of sorts rather than waste your words I wouldn't waste too much time on it.. as it'll be simply a hit or miss - it won't matter how well you dress the facts up. It is very unlikely that you will get the result you desire given the above legal authorities are so rigid.Originally posted by mystery1 View PostComment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
Do you not read the posts before putting your digit into gear?
The last series of posts are about a separate incident concerning tyres with insufficienr thread.
It has not yet been to court.Comment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
Do I have to keep my digits from responding to your little sly digs...for now i will. Stop these little back-biting please - it's even worse on the VIP forum, to my shock actually. M1 was saying the OP could ask for a reconsideration of the Magistrate's decision for a lot of things, I believe. I am saying the law is particular to the law's provisions and nothing else.Originally posted by des8 View PostComment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
Crikey - please don't argue, people .....
I honestly think the best thing I can do is
a) get my son to send his licence back (or just say he lost it).
b) get my son to phone the Compliance & Enforcement people at the court & set up a direct debit/payment card for as little as he can, so his wages aren't destropyed.
c) Sit & wait biting my fingers for his "tyre" offence to enter stage left.
Actually, I don't know why I am biting my nails. It's HIS licence, not mine - I am obviously a model citizen & never do anything dangerous.
Lastly (maybe) ....
When my dear son gets his brand new provisional licence, do the 9 (or maybe 12 if the tyre one is added on) get put on his new licence and ONE offence will be back to square one again, or is it a clean slate & he'd better behave himself?Comment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
I believe the points will stay on. You added the contents of one of the letters in an earlier post and I think it confirmed this.
He'll just have to be ever so law abiding for a while !Comment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
Hello, IanOriginally posted by CaptainChaos View Post
You could argue technicalities under s.42 - ie were the rules for single justice procedure followed as per Crim proced. rules. This depends on all the facts. Tell us some details, if you haven't already, about the tyre offence. It seems like they've well and truly thrown the book at your lad.Comment
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Re: Son's Speeding/Failure to give information
Hello openlaw15 (again).
Basically, he got a NIP saying that ONE of his fron tyres was below minimum legal level (even though it was actually BOTH front tyres & I had warned him to get them fixed before driving anywhere, but I'm his Dad, what do I know!?!).
He went out, got stopped & the police officer apparently said that he would report him for ONE of the tyres, not both. Maybe the police officer knew that if he reported my son for BOTH tyres, he'd lose his licence, and didn't know that my dear son had already got 2 speeding things going through the system!
That letter was dated back in January this year, the offence being in December last year. It doesn't appear (on the letter) to say how many tyres he was being charged for, just said "tyres" plural, so I don't know.
Yes, I think you're right - they have really gone to town on him, but at the end of the day .....
a) he was speeding (twice)
b) he drove KNOWING that his 2 front tyres were illegal
and
c) ignored ALL of the initial letters until it was too late to do anything about it (not that he/we could have done anyway due to the length of time he ignored it all hoping it would magically go away) hahahahaha
Now, he has to pay the £811 fine by the 30th June - I have written out instructions for him to tell them when he phones them up to set up a Direct Debit to pay it monthly, and what has he done about it so far? Nothing. (facepalm).Comment
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