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I will let you make up your own minds...

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  • #31
    Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

    Hi Mariefab

    In connection with the WP conversation when he first suggested this course of action on 6th jan I was caught of guard. I had previously came across it doing my research, but because I only browsed it I think it would have been risky to succumb to his pressure and agree there and then. I spoke to him face to face on the 8th to make it clear it was a settlement agreement he was offering, which he confirmed, I have been genuinely busy and stressed at home (sons car crash - Mother in laws funeral), so I told him I couldn't think clearly about it now he tried to pressure me saying his consultants "A" need the paperwork. I even mention that if it is an agreement then their will be legal issues, he then assured me that "A"would sort that out.

    I contacted him on 12th Jan and my words to him were - If we were to proceed with a settlement agreement then it would have to be in writing to be legally binding - Now this information was not given to me by anyone nor did i seek any advice from a professional body, this I found out from research, and would i be right in thinking that he also should have done research to understand what he was offering.
    Here is something to think about, why am i financially better of by not having the settlement agreement?

    I have no problem with posting documents on the forum if i am allowed, but I would rather you read through them first to check that there is nothing i shouldn't be talking about.

    One last question, what would you say that the reason for dismissal is? and, How have they come to that conclusion? This is not clear to me

    Thanks again Mariefab and thanks to all those taking an interest

    Cheers
    GB
    A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on.
    Success always occurs in private and failure in full view
    Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
    Deals work best when each side gets something it wants from the other
    A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
    If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried. No one is listening until you make a mistake.
    Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm. Swimming is good for you, especially if you're drowning.
    Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


    Comment

    • #32
      Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

      The reason for dismissal is that they have lost trust and confidence in you.
      They then gave the 3 reasons why they have lost this trust and confidence.

      The purpose of a without prejudice conversation/letter/whatever is to settle a dispute in order to avoid litigation. So, legal proceedings must have either commenced or be contemplated at the time that the offer is made. When used correctly the result is that the WP conversation/letter/whatever is 'privileged' and therefore neither it's contents nor it's existence can be used against the party that makes the offer in further legal proceedings or in court.

      FYI, you were correct to tell him that, in order to be legally binding, a settlement agreement would need to be in writing. It also wouldn't be legally binding unless you had independent legal advice on the written settlement agreement before signing it.
      Given that to qualify as a without prejudice conversation it would need to be a genuine attempt to settle a dispute; offering you a payment of less than the statutory minimum notice period is not satisfactory. Especially as they'd already indicated in the disciplinary invite the intention to dismiss you with notice. (Which in this case would mean 3 weeks payment instead of the 2 weeks offered.)

      Comment

      • #33
        Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

        I've read the documents that you sent and I strongly advise you not to send the appeal letter that was among them. I can pretty much guarantee that your appeal will fail if you do.
        Instead, I suggest that you send this...

        I wish to appeal the decision to dismiss me.
        Although I was informed of the decision by phone on 12th January I was given no details. So, I didn't know the 3 reasons for the decision until I received the confirmation letter on 15th January.
        I request the reasonable adjustment of a 1 week extension of time to enable me to get advise and compile a written outline of the grounds for my appeal.
        Please confirm that this is acceptable.
        　
        Send it to the person named in the dismissal letter by email and also send another copy by signed for post, today.
        • 2 likes

        Comment

        • #34
          Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

          To answer your 'what next' pm, now that you've sent that^ off we can work on your appeal outline.

          Your former employer is now committed to the 3 written reasons given for the decision to dismiss you.
          Any other matters (whenever they arose) that don't relate to those 3 reasons are now irrelevant.
          The focus of your appeal must be on those 3 reasons and nothing else.
          If your appeal is to stand a chance of succeeding you need to accept this.

          Reasons 2 & 3 can be dealt with on this thread but some of the reason 1 stuff we can deal with by pm because of the sensitive disability-related issues involved.

          Couple of questions:
          1. Can you confirm again that the office was empty when you threw the Christmas tree?
          2.Have you had any previous disciplinary warnings from this employer?
          No details, just yes/no and if yes whether verbal/written and when received.

          Comment

          • #35
            Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

            Yes the office was empty

            Sorry about this not being a yes/no answer but it does involve the appeal procedure

            Yes (expired now) and it was Written and I did have the right to appeal 14 Calender days and not 7 as stated in their DP , this has not been amended to 7 days recently because the warning was after the date on their DP. I thought this might be important.

            Sorry again about that, I will in future try my best to give you Yes/No answers (I'll shorten it to Y & N if you want):tongue2:


            Cheers GB
            A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on.
            Success always occurs in private and failure in full view
            Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
            A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
            Deals work best when each side gets something it wants from the other
            A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
            You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
            If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried. No one is listening until you make a mistake.
            Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm. Swimming is good for you, especially if you're drowning.
            Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


            • 1 thank

            Comment

            • #36
              Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

              Lol! Sorry, I didn't mean that to come across as bossy as it reads. By 'no details' I just meant that I didn't want to know right now what any warnings were for.

              So, one 'ordinary' written warning? Not a final written warning.
              It lasted for 12 months and expired on a date before 12th January 2016?
              Is this correct?

              Comment

              • #37
                Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

                You can be as bossy as you like because your kind enough to take and interest in this and help me, and this is what I wanted, somebody to look at it from their own point of view and give me honest opinions and answers. Just carry on as you see fit.

                Right the answers
                It was a final written warning on the 29th July 2014 and expired after 1 year.

                If you Need the details I'll supply them and you'll probably laugh

                Cheers GB
                A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on.
                Success always occurs in private and failure in full view
                Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
                A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
                Deals work best when each side gets something it wants from the other
                A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
                You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
                If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried. No one is listening until you make a mistake.
                Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm. Swimming is good for you, especially if you're drowning.
                Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


                Comment

                • #38
                  Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

                  About the tree incident...
                  Did you see the CCTV footage?
                  If so, does it confirm that the room was empty?
                  Did you break the tree?
                  Was anything else at all broken or damaged when you threw it?

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

                    I didn't see the CCTV because i didn't object to this but explained it was just a moment of frustration so i can't confirm the empty room. I didn't break the tree and nothing else was damaged. Just to point out the size of the tree was only about 5-6 inches, I know they have made it look like it was a Giant Redwood I threw but it was small.:tree:


                    Cheers
                    GB
                    A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on.
                    Success always occurs in private and failure in full view
                    Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
                    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
                    Deals work best when each side gets something it wants from the other
                    A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
                    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
                    If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried. No one is listening until you make a mistake.
                    Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm. Swimming is good for you, especially if you're drowning.
                    Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

                      Just to be clear, you're saying that you don't know whether the CCTV confirms that the room was empty because you didn't watch it. Yes?
                      During the disciplinary hearing did the person representing the employer accept that the room was empty when you threw it?

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

                        At the meeting he claimed that there was some one there. I have asked the person since the meeting and she said that she walked in afterwards but didn't see me throw it. I have got in touch with my friend that accompanied me to confirm this. This might take a while because he to is now in the spotlight over his connection with me. He not that bothered, but if anything happens to him I shall give him your name.

                        Some positive news is my appeal letter has arrived and set for 3pm on Friday 5th February 2016. I will scan the letter and send it to you

                        Cheers
                        GB
                        A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on.
                        Success always occurs in private and failure in full view
                        Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
                        A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
                        Deals work best when each side gets something it wants from the other
                        A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
                        You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
                        If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried. No one is listening until you make a mistake.
                        Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm. Swimming is good for you, especially if you're drowning.
                        Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

                          I have attached the appeal letter

                          Cheers GB
                          Attached Files
                          A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on.
                          Success always occurs in private and failure in full view
                          Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
                          A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
                          Deals work best when each side gets something it wants from the other
                          A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
                          You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
                          If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried. No one is listening until you make a mistake.
                          Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm. Swimming is good for you, especially if you're drowning.
                          Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


                          Comment

                          • #43
                            Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

                            Hi Mariefab


                            I have just spoken to the woman and she said she walked in after it had been thrown and she came from the door behind me which was opposite to the direction i threw the tree.

                            Cheers
                            GB
                            A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on.
                            Success always occurs in private and failure in full view
                            Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
                            A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
                            Deals work best when each side gets something it wants from the other
                            A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
                            You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
                            If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried. No one is listening until you make a mistake.
                            Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm. Swimming is good for you, especially if you're drowning.
                            Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

                              From post #17

                              Originally posted by Ginger Black View Post

                              For whatever reason now they want rid of me and i never wanted it this way but they have backed me into a corner and the only thing left for me to do is throw everything I have at them.
                              :tree::tree::tree::tree::tree::tree:

                              - Apologies............I tried to resist, honest I did.............
                              CAVEAT LECTOR

                              This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                              You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                              Cohen, Herb

                              There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                              gets his brain a-going.
                              Phelps, C. C.

                              "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                              The last words of John Sedgwick
                              • 3 likes

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Re: I will let you make up your own minds...

                                Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
                                From post #17



                                :tree::tree::tree::tree::tree::tree:

                                - Apologies............I tried to resist, honest I did.............
                                The was no CLAUSE in my contract that said i couldn't throw it:santa3:
                                A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on.
                                Success always occurs in private and failure in full view
                                Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
                                A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
                                Deals work best when each side gets something it wants from the other
                                A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
                                You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
                                If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried. No one is listening until you make a mistake.
                                Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm. Swimming is good for you, especially if you're drowning.
                                Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


                                • 1 thank

                                Comment

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