Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

[jacksmummy2011]

Hi All,

Ive been reading a lot on this site over the last 24 hours which has put my mind at ease that this is just a process and that I am not the only one!!

I would be very grateful if someone would have the time to have a little read when they can......

here goes.....

Arrived home today to a letter from Northampton County Court addressed to me in my maiden name via M0rtimer Clark£ Solicitors for an alleged debt owed to BH Finance.

The Court notice was dated 21/10/2014 and my OH opened it before we could use the simple return to sender tactic advised in the newbie board as he panicked when he saw the word "Defendant" through the window.

The amount claimed is well over the original agreement amount in which I believe to be totally miscalculated as when I stopped paying the debt in 3 years ago via the a debt counselling service and believe I had got the amount down to around just over 2k (the original amount was around 4-5K) I can't remember the exact amount and am unable to find any paperwork.

The loan was originally taken out in 2007 according to the court papers which makes me think they have a copy of the agreement at the least as they have specified the exact date.

we move around a lot as hdue to OH job, so its taken them a while to catch up with me. I did stop paying as I was dismissed from a long employment with my employer...I had been in hospital for 6 months of my pregnancy, long story short tried to take them to employment tribunal but they shut up shop and moved the office to the middle east (not because of me because that was the company plan) and I just didn't have the money to pursue it as was now out of UK Jurisdiction. I then couldn't pay anything as I had no maternity allowance & wasn't entitled to benefit, we were then posted away and OH wages have since then been stretched as we live in a remote area with no employment opportunities unless you are in the military. Needless to say things have escalated and I was very naive to think they wouldn't catch up with me. Im not on the electoral role and everything is in OH name here so I'm also baffled how they even know I'm here considering I've had nothing from them or contacted them. OH's initial reaction is "just ignore it" "they can't send anyone as we live behind the wire and you don't need any credit anyway" but Im not sure thats very clever and would at least try to tackle this.

I can't be sure as I'm not sure how all the charges work but Im sure the amount is a lot higher than it should be, they've added an interest amount of over £800 & Costs and Court Fees of £550 taking the claim over 6K for what i initially believe to be a 3k loan (maybe 3.5k) I really cannot remember.

This is the first I have heard from MC I haven't had any other letters from them at all, although they state they've had the account since 19/10/2011 which makes no sense as there was an agreement set up by the CCCS which was being paid, I have had no default notice from these people (however that could be as we've moved around a lot in the last 4 years 5 times to be exact because of hubbies job) however on the particulars they state they have served one but with no date.

Now Ive had a good look about here, and on other pages/forums.

My understanding is that initially I need to follow the below process:

1. Send a CPR 31.14 request to MC
2. Send a CCA request to BH ( I understand this may take some time)
3. Send my Acknowledgement to the court (NCCC dated 21/10/14 so I have until the 9th November 2014)

if someone could clarify these would be sensible steps to take then that would be great.

No a couple of questions I have;

1. Should I question MC about the date they alleged this debt was passed to them as it doesn't seem right to me at all I know I was paying BH via the CCCS at that time or should I keep that card for a later time.

2. Should I drag it out and not acknowledge until nearer the 14 days and if I do so it this when I should send the request to MC for the CPR 31.14 or should I send that straight away.

3. Is it worth following getoutofdebtforfree's 3 letter process/Estoppel with MC, Id just rather try and simplify (i know its never simple) things as much as possible and if its no longer an effective method could it complicate matters?

4. Should I keep all correspondence in my maiden name or should I inform them of my married name?

5. Im concerned that BH will not respond to my CCA as the address I reside at now is not where the original agreement was taken out, secondly I have none of the details for the account or agreement number and they are not listed on the court particulars. Or should I just send them a copy of the blue NCCC?

Sorry for the long detailed post but I would be very grateful for any advice received.

Many Thanks.

[Kati]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

Hi @jacksmummy2011, and welcome to LB!
As it's the weekend, it might take a while for you to get many answers from the knowledgeable Beagles, so please don't worry too much while you are waiting

Here's a link to the BASIC FIRST STEPS which is a good source of information, and will help you to understand exactly what you are advised to do on receipt of a court claim (although it looks like you are pretty clued up at the moment, it can't hurt to double check )

In answer to your questions

1. Should I question MC about the date they alleged this debt was passed to them as it doesn't seem right to me at all I know I was paying BH via the CCCS at that time or should I keep that card for a later time.

2. Should I drag it out and not acknowledge until nearer the 14 days and if I do so it this when I should send the request to MC for the CPR 31.14 or should I send that straight away.

3. Is it worth following getoutofdebtforfree's 3 letter process/Estoppel with MC, Id just rather try and simplify (i know its never simple) things as much as possible and if its no longer an effective method could it complicate matters?

4. Should I keep all correspondence in my maiden name or should I inform them of my married name?

5. Im concerned that BH will not respond to my CCA as the address I reside at now is not where the original agreement was taken out, secondly I have none of the details for the account or agreement number and they are not listed on the court particulars. Or should I just send them a copy of the blue NCCC?

1; I'd personally leave this for now (what they don't know can't be used against you)
2; I don't think this really matters so long as you do it within the 14 day time limit
3; NO NO NO NO NO NO It is my understanding that this process is most definitely not the way to go about this ... the basic first steps (linked above) and help from LB is much better/more professional :tinysmile_twink_t2:
4; I'd use your married name (but other Beagles will be able to advise you more on this point)
5; It shouldn't matter if the address the original agreement was taken out at is different to the one you have now ... they are obliged to respond to your CCA and CPR requests regardless!

Kati x

[Kafka]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

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The loan was originally taken out in 2007 according to the court papers which makes me think they have a copy of the agreement at the least as they have specified the exact date. The loan was taken out in my maiden name.

It doesn't follow that the knowledge of the date of inception means they have a valid copy of the agreement.

However, for a 2007 agreement they are more likely to have this copy than they often do for older accounts. You haven't said when in 2007 either, but if it dates after 5th April then there is less chance of fighting the claim based on incorrect documentation, because the law changed then with a revised version of the CCA.

A key issue here seems to be the amount claimed and it looks as if there are a lot of bogus charges added on. It might be prudent to also send a SAR to get all of the documentation, which will include details of all of these charges. Should you end up unable to contest the validity of the agreement, at least yo would then be able to counterclaim to get all of the charges (plus interest) removed from the claim.

The downside of this is that a SAR request allows 40 days for compliance, so may not come before the defence has to be in. That might change though if they can't supply the paperwork quickly and you can get an additional 28 days. There is also a chance of amending the defence and adding a counterclaim later before court, if it looks like you can't win. SAR costs only £10 and given the 1000s involved I would send for that now. The worst that can happen is that you lose £10.

[jacksmummy2011]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

Hi @jacksmummy2011, and welcome to LB!
As it's the weekend, it might take a while for you to get many answers from the knowledgeable Beagles, so please don't worry too much while you are waiting

Here's a link to the BASIC FIRST STEPS which is a good source of information, and will help you to understand exactly what you are advised to do on receipt of a court claim (although it looks like you are pretty clued up at the moment, it can't hurt to double check )

In answer to your questions


1; I'd personally leave this for now (what they don't know can't be used against you)
2; I don't think this really matters so long as you do it within the 14 day time limit
3; NO NO NO NO NO NO It is my understanding that this process is most definitely not the way to go about this ... the basic first steps (linked above) and help from LB is much better/more professional :tinysmile_twink_t2:
4; I'd use your married name (but other Beagles will be able to advise you more on this point)
5; It shouldn't matter if the address the original agreement was taken out at is different to the one you have now ... they are obliged to respond to your CCA and CPR requests regardless!

Kati x

Thanks Kati,

its really kind of you to reply and give me a push in the right direction, I suspected that GOODF's 3 letter process would have been a waste of time and probably irrelevant at this stage but wanted to check all my options.

I will be doing some more research tonight once little one is in bed and Im hoping to get the CCA & CPR drafted as a start.

Im definitely feeling a lot more confident than what I did yesterday.

Than you again,

[jacksmummy2011]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

It doesn't follow that the knowledge of the date of inception means they have a valid copy of the agreement.

However, for a 2007 agreement they are more likely to have this copy than they often do for older accounts. You haven't said when in 2007 either, but if it dates after 5th April then there is less chance of fighting the claim based on incorrect documentation, because the law changed then with a revised version of the CCA.

A key issue here seems to be the amount claimed and it looks as if there are a lot of bogus charges added on. It might be prudent to also send a SAR to get all of the documentation, which will include details of all of these charges. Should you end up unable to contest the validity of the agreement, at least yo would then be able to counterclaim to get all of the charges (plus interest) removed from the claim.

The downside of this is that a SAR request allows 40 days for compliance, so may not come before the defence has to be in. That might change though if they can't supply the paperwork quickly and you can get an additional 28 days. There is also a chance of amending the defence and adding a counterclaim later before court, if it looks like you can't win. SAR costs only £10 and given the 1000s involved I would send for that now. The worst that can happen is that you lose £10.

Thanks Kafta.

They state that the agreement was the 13/03/2007 with BH Finance. I have scanned in and will upload a copy of the NCCC if I can work out how to. Whats worrying me is that Im pretty confident the original loan amount was only around 3-3.5k at the most so the initial figure they have seems high even before they've added anything on although this could be down to PPI, interest etc as you mention.

A SAR sounds extremely sensible and I will get that drafted tonight and fired off first thing monday by registered post. Would I send the SAR to both the Claimant & BH Finance or just to BHF? Im also assuming I only need to send the CCA to BHF, but the CPR to MC?

Many thanks again for the direction and your time it really is very much appreciated.

Now Im going to have a try at uploading this....... x

[jacksmummy2011]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

Ok now I know you're probably going to think what chance has this lady got is she can't upload a doc, but any help on 'How to" would be gratefully received (I've have a jpeg but not a url)

[Kati]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

Ok now I know you're probably going to think what chance has this lady got is she can't upload a doc, but any help on 'How to" would be gratefully received (I've have a jpeg but not a url)

click "go advanced" in the reply box ... then click the 'paperclip' icon (middle top) ... you get a pop-up where you can upload an attachment (chose the file you want then upload it)

give me a shout if you need anything!
K xx

[Kafka]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

Date before 6/4/2007 is good news.

SAR goes to the original creditor as DCAs and solicitors never bother to assemble the documentation they are legally obliged to hold before commencing legal action.

CCA request always goes to the current owner, regardless of whether they were the original one. The SAR and CPR requests also require disclosure of the agreement, but each of these requests is a discrete legal instrument used for a specific purpose.

CPR request always goes to whoever has started (or in come cases threatened) legal action and that is nearly always a solicitor acting as an agent for the current owner.

It is important that all correspondence is done correctly and sent promptly, so please check everything if you are not sure.

[jacksmummy2011]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

I think Ive managed it, thank you both Kati & Kafka for everything so far, You both really couldn't be more helpful :0).

Tonight, when the little one is down I will draft the...

SAR request for BHF
CPR & CCA requests off to current owner MC.

I will uploads copies as soon as they are drafted and I am able to.

Thanks again x

[Kati]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

done

[Kafka]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

The CPR request to the solicitors can only seek documentation referred to in the POC, in this case being:

1) A valid copy of the original credit agreement, together with the T&C applying at that time.
2) A valid copy of the Default Notice issued, complying with the requirements of the CCA.
3) A valid copy of the Notice of Assignment sent by the original creditor to the Defendant.

[jacksmummy2011]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

Thank you Kafka, Ive done some more reading and I'm working on the drafts now, should I also request the a copy of the Termination Notice?

Also should I be asking for a copy of the 'Agreement' or the original, I just do not want to make a simple error which increases their chances.

Many Thanks Once again! :0)

[Kati]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

Check through the links on the basic first steps (my first post) I'm sure they'll point you in the right direction in regards what to ask for etc ...
K xx

[Kafka]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

Thank you Kafka, Ive done some more reading and I'm working on the drafts now, should I also request the a copy of the Termination Notice?

Also should I be asking for a copy of the 'Agreement' or the original, I just do not want to make a simple error which increases their chances.

Many Thanks Once again! :0)

A Default Notice becomes a termination if it is not complied with to bring the account into order.

You ask for a valid copy of the original agreement, together with the T&Cs that were applicable at the time. The importance of 6 April 2007 is that for agreements made after that date they can provide a cobbled-together version and don't have to supply a valid copy of the original. Luckily you fall into the earlier period where we can challenge anything that isn't a true copy of the original containing all the prescribed terms.

Having said that, lenders generally tightened up their documentation when the bank charges movement kicked off in 2006 and they realised that they could get kicked in the plums by the likes of us, as happened from those early days. I suspect that for an early-2007 agreement they well be able to find the original paperwork, in which case the agreement can't be challenged. We should still be able to delay proceedings and challenge other things, particularly if we can get the SAR back and counterclaim for the charges.

[jacksmummy2011]

Re: Any help gratefully received with a NCCBC which have been recieved.

Thank You again Kati.

All 3 letters drafted ready for rechecking tomorrow (tired worried head on) and sending on Monday.

1 x CPR for MC
1 x CCA for ME IV
1 x SAR request for BHF

The only thing Im concerned about is not having the original agreement number when completing the SAR request, but Ive provided my name & DOB. I might add a copy of the NCCC but I need to research that a bit more first I think. So that'll be tomorrows job. :-)

x