Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

[di30]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Thank you, yes I will go with the flow so to speak but also state that I expect a refund in full of all monies due to me without further delay! What makes it even more frustrating is that I had a result with Santander two weeks after my application, refund in full! Sent them a copy of the Agreement etc., no form filling just a letter and it was sorted! Grrrr no wonder Lloyds are getting a bad name, I think it has also come to light that they have been accused of interest rate fixing !!

Of course I will keep you informed, watch this space lol

Lol, you should be ok this time round, and they are not the easiest to deal with, but as said stand your ground, they will know you will not give in now, and this one realistically should be changed in your favour.

Strangely enough, I am currently dealing with Santander, not getting much luck at the moment though as its a very old account, but will keep them on their feet lol.

Will keep a watch on your thread. Good luck.

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Oh I'm surprised at your problems with Santander, my was also an old account, actually there were 2 going back to 1998, again I had a copy of at least one agreement, whether that makes a difference or not I don't know? Also my husband seems to think that the more we are entitled to with these banks makes a difference on whether or not they are going to cough up easily i.e., maybe they have an unwritten rule i.e., say if a person is owned e.g., more than £5,000 they will reject and reject, whereas the lesser the amount maybe they wouldn't reject quite so easily, just a thought lol. Can't trust these buggers!

[di30]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Oh I'm surprised at your problems with Santander, my was also an old account, actually there were 2 going back to 1998, again I had a copy of at least one agreement, whether that makes a difference or not I don't know? Also my husband seems to think that the more we are entitled to with these banks makes a difference on whether or not they are going to cough up easily i.e., maybe they have an unwritten rule i.e., say if a person is owned e.g., more than £5,000 they will reject and reject, whereas the lesser the amount maybe they wouldn't reject quite so easily, just a thought lol. Can't trust these buggers!

Ours is older again unfortunately, however it is still ongoing..........
As it is not actually Santander who dealt with the sale, but we have to go through them because they deal with GE Capital bank complaints, they state at present they are currently having problems tracking down the account, despite me sending the account number and copies of some paperwork, I do not have much paperwork to go by and GE Cap bank were not FSA regulated back then.

So...........I have since sent a SAR and was told by their dept today they are looking into it, shall see what they come back with and go from there.

You are so right though, they do tend to reject on higher amounts, and agree on smaller reclaims, very naughty!

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Well good luck with yours also !

[di30]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Well good luck with yours also !

Thank you hun x:tinysmile_grin_t:

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

lol the plot thickens, I have just opened inside the copy of my loan agreement, to see TERMS - very small print! and there is nothing whatsoever in there about a 30 day cooling off period! The only time it mentions 30 days is......."you should tell us when you want the loan paid to you. This must be on a business day no more than 30 days after we sign this agreement. Ok so this just refers to the loan agreement and not the ppi but I reckon suffice to say I did not receive any other terms & conditions !

[di30]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Good one and great find. :tinysmile_grin_t:, and with the ppi being included within the loan it will therefore be counted as one account anyway. x

[Bill-K]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Hi Daisy. The banks recently complained that claims management companies were flooding them with claims which had not been checked or assessed. As a result, it seems that the banks are now rejecting claims without checking them, as this is the only way they can cope with the onslaught. This forces claimants to either back down or make a further effort, and I think this is their way of 'filtering' the serious claims. I can't add much to Di's excellent help here, but here's a letter I recently drafted for another LTSB claimant. If it's of use, then alter it to suit your own circs:-
" Dear LTSB

Thank you for your letter of XXXX, explaining that you have found insufficient evidence to agree with my allegations that the PPI was mis-sold on the loan accounts. This comes as no surprise to me, as this sale took place several years ago, so I doubt that there is very much data available concerning it. I think it would be fairer and more accurate to say that the evidence in support of my claim outweighs any evidence to dispute it.

In my original letter of complaint, I stated that I consider that the PPI was mis-sold for a number of reasons, and the points which you have taken from the questionnaire are just two of those reasons. I list below further reasons why I consider the PPI to have been mis-sold:-
1. I was led to believe that the insurance was compulsory, and it was not explained to me that the policy was optional.
2. I was pressurised into purchasing the insurance by the generally insistent nature of the seller.
3. I was not asked whether I already had any existing insurance or employer cover/benefits that would cover the repayments in a similar way to this insurance.
4. I was not provided with full information as to what the insurance would and would not cover.
5. It was not explained that there are exclusions within the policy clauses that could seriously affect any potential claim I made on this insurance, so I was unable to make an informed decision as to whether this insurance was suitable or not.
6. I paid in advance for the insurance but it was never explained that there were other methods of payment available.
7. It was not explained that the insurance cover would not run for the full term of the loan, even though the repayment of insurance premiums would continue for the full term of the loan.
8. It was not explained that, by adding the insurance premium to the loan amount, it would continue to accrue interest over the full term of the loan.
9. It was certainly not in my interest to purchase this particular policy.
10. It is generally accepted that PPI has been widely mis-sold by lenders over the years. So much so, that in August 2010 the FSA produced Policy Statement PS 10/12 entitled “The assessment and redress of Payment Protection Insurance complaints.” Contained within this is the Dispute Resolution Handbook specifically dealing with the handling of complaints about mis-sold PPI. Therefore, where a complaint of mis-selling of PPI is made, then unless the lender can show otherwise, the balance of probability is that the PPI was mis-sold.

I do not consider that my complaint has been assessed in accordance with the FSA’s Dispute Resolution rules, and I request that you now urgently look again at my complaint with particular reference to the following rules from PS 10/12:-

DISP APP 3.2.2 The firm should seek to establish the true substance of the complaint, rather than taking a narrow interpretation of the issues raised, and should not focus solely on the specific expression of the complaint. This is likely to require an approach to complaint handling that seeks to clarify the nature of the complaint.
DISP APP 3.3.1 Where a complaint is made, the firm should assess the complaint fairly, giving appropriate weight and balanced consideration to all available evidence, including what the complainant says and other information about the sale that the firm identifies. The firm is not expected automatically to assume that there has been a breach or failing.
DISP APP 3.3.2 The firm should not rely solely on the detail within the wording of a policy's terms and conditions to reject what a complainant recalls was said during the sale.
DISP APP 3.3.3 The firm should recognise that oral evidence may be sufficient evidence and not dismiss evidence from the complainant solely because it is not supported by documentary proof. The firm should take account of a complainant's limited ability fully to articulate his complaint or to explain his actions or decisions made at the time of the sale.
DISP APP 3.3.4 Where the complainant's account of events conflicts with the firm's own records or leaves doubt, the firm should assess the reliability of the complainant's account fairly and in good faith. The firm should make all reasonable efforts (including by contact with the complainant where necessary) to clarify ambiguous issues or conflicts of evidence before making any finding against the complainant.
DISP APP 3.3.5 The firm should not reject a complainant's account of events solely on the basis that the complainant signed documentation relevant to the purchase of the policy.
DISP APP 3.3.9 In determining a particular complaint, the firm should (unless there are reasons not to because of the quality and plausibility of the respective evidence) give more weight to any specific evidence of what happened during the sale (including any relevant documentation and oral testimony) than to general evidence of selling practices at the time (such as training, instructions or sales scripts or relevant audit or compliance reports on those practices).
DISP APP 3.7.2 Where the firm concludes that the complainant would not have bought the payment protection contract he bought, and the firm is not using the alternative approach to redress (set out in DISP App 3.7.7 E to 3.7.15 E) or other appropriate redress (see DISP App 3.8), the firm should, as far as practicable, put the complainant in the position he would have been if he had not bought any payment protection contract.
DISP APP 3.9.4 The firm should make any offer of redress to the complainant in a fair and balanced way. In particular, the firm should explain clearly to the complainant the basis for the redress offered including how any compensation is calculated and, where relevant, the rescheduling of the loan, and the consequences of accepting the offer of redress.

I do hope you will see from this that I am serious about this complaint, and I trust you will deal with it properly and fairly. I am sure you will not need reminding that the FOS will take into account your conduct in dealing with my complaint, should I be forced to refer this to them - and I hope we can avoid the time and expense of having to do so.

I look forward to your timeous response. Thank you in anticipation.
Yours etc. "

[di30]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Cheers for that Bill, that is fantastic x I'm sure that will be a great help to Daisy too x

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Oh yes, thanks so much, that's brill - I am as I write this in the process of writing the said letter - this is it so far.....

I refer to your letter dated 9th August 2012 which may well have crossed with my letter to you of even date.


I note that you say you are unable to uphold my complaint. You also say that you trust you have clearly explained the reasons for your decision. I am absolutely astonished by this decision.


You have at no time explained your reasons either verbally, nor in your letter of 9th August. As suggested in your letter I did telephone and spoke to a Mr. Tahmid. He advised me that my letter of the 9th August had only just gone onto the system and that from what he could see, the reasons you are not going to uphold my complaint were because of the Terms & Conditions i.e., I would have been given a 30 day cooling off period. In this respect I would comment as follows:


After an exhaustive search, I can find no records of my ever having received Terms & Conditions of the PPI after taking out these loans and there was never any mention of a 30 day cooling off period either with the person who mis-sold me the ppi policies or the loans in any of the paperwork. If you do have any records of sending me other paperwork or Terms & Conditions i.e., if these were sent Recorded Delivery, I would appreciate if you could send me copies of proof of Recorded Delivery and proof that I had received these.


However, as the Loan was a NON CANCELLABLE FIXED RATE LOAN AGREEMENT, I would not have actually expected to have received any further communications as there would have been little point.


In the Terms within the NON CANCELLABLE FIXED RATE LOAN AGREEMENT, there is absolutely no reference to a 30 day cooling off period. As you are aware the ppi was part of this NON CANCELLABLE FIXED RATE LOAN AGREEMENT.
As stated previously, I was pressured into the PPI to the extent where the salesperson made it abundantly clearly the loan(s) would not be forthcoming without the PPI being taken out! Also as previously stated by me the box was already pre ticked by the salesperson. It is my belief that the salesperson was most probably working on a commission/incentive basis.


Furthermore, for the PPI to have been of any benefit to me, I would have had to have been working more than 16 hours per week (which I was not), (please see my letter of 9th August), sick for 30 days and then only paid 1/30th of monthly installments. It would have made absolutely no sense for me to haveknowingly taken out this type of policy!


At no time were these exclusions pointed out to me or brought to my attention! As stated previously I was not given the option of taking ppi elsewhere had I wanted to do so. As also stated previously, I was not asked if I had any other funds to cover the repayments which I did have at the time.
At no time was I asked if I had alternative Income Protection
At no time was I told that interest was payable on the PPI payments.


Having taken further legal advice, and for the avoidance of doubt, I feel that the PPI was mis-sold to me for the reasons already advised to you and as set out herein.

Well that's as far as I have got right now, so I think I'll continue using some of the above i.e., from No. 9 onwards - yay bring it on.

So how's my letter looking so far?

Anyone know if it worked for the other claimant?

[Bill-K]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Cheers Di, I think your experience with LTSB has been a great help for Daisy here. The letter looks good to me, Daisy, but a there are a further couple of points arising from DISP APP 3.7.2 above...

I was not given the option of taking ppi elsewhere had I wanted to do so.

The 'Alternative Redress' mentioned is where it is accepted that the claimant WOULD have bought PPI elsewhere if they had known they were entitled to - and in such cases the lender can make a reduced offer, based on the difference between what the PPI actually cost and what a cheaper PPI policy would have cost. I therefore suggest that claimants do not give this as a reason for mis-selling - unless there are no other reasons.

We are awaiting the FOS 's determination on a LTSB claim where several consecutive loan agreements contained a condition that they should be 'serviced' by a LTSB current account. The loans had mis-sold PPI on them, which was reclaimed - but the current account suffered a number of penalty charges which would not have been made if PPI was not included in the loan repayments. Because DISP APP 3.7.2 clearly says it is the complainant who should be "put back in the position he would have been in" - as opposed to the account. I therefore believe that such 'consequential losses' should be refunded.

The letter I posted has been used with Barclaycard and with Capital One, and they both 're-opened' the claim file. We have received a PPI refund on one of the LTSB accounts, but are still waiting to hear with regard to a credit card account with them.

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Yes a great help and thank you again. My letter is finished and will be sent off Recorded Delivery tomorrow - the following are my last few paragraphs::

I do hope you will see from this that I am serious about this complaint, and I trust you will now deal with it properly and fairly. I am sure you will not need reminding that the FOS or whichever Legal Representative I decide to use, will take into account your conduct in dealing with my complaint, should I be forced to refer this to them. I sincerely hope we can avoid the time and the expense of having to do so and since this case is one which has been ongoing for 8 weeks, I do feel that given the reasons outlined above to wait yet another 8 weeks is very unfair and in all the circumstances , quite unnecessary.I therefore look forward to hearing from you with reimbursement of all monies due to me without further delay.

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Oh, I should have added at the outset, I also have a credit card PPI with Lloyds - am expecting a rejection letter any day now! Would the same wording apply do you think?

[Bill-K]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Well done, Daisy. Last paragraph - with the mention of the additional 8 weeks - looks good to me. The same DISP APP rules apply to credit cards, but there may be some differences in the mis-selling reasons, so you may need to check this.

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Ok many thanks for that Bill, I'll let you know when the said letter arrives!