Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

[Bill-K]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Let's hope it has the desired effect, Daisy. If you haven't done so, now might be a good time to work out what you will consider as a minimum acceptable offer, as they don't always give you much time to accept. We have some spreadsheets for this, which might help - one for loans where a single upfront premium is charged (SPI), and one for credit cards.

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Hi Bill, many thanks for that, I have a rough idea of what I should be due although I based this on the figure I received from Santander (i.e., I've doubled it roughly), do you know if the spreadsheets will work on a Mac?

Also I have another query with regard to a Nationwide claim, should I put it here or start another thread do you think?

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Well done, Daisy. Last paragraph - with the mention of the additional 8 weeks - looks good to me. The same DISP APP rules apply to credit cards, but there may be some differences in the mis-selling reasons, so you may need to check this.

So where can I check these particular rules for mis selling on credit cards please? Google does not appear to be helping

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Actually I've just found this, which I thought may be useful in some cases


3.3.6 The firm should not reject a complaint because the complainant failed to exercise the right to cancel the policy.


3.3.12 (3) whether, from a reasonable customer's perspective, the documentation provided to the complainant was sufficiently clear, concise and presented fairly (for example, was the documentation in plain and intelligible language?);

[Bill-K]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Sorry Daisy - my reply yesterday didn't get posted for some reason - so, in reply to your question about the spreadies...

They are MS Excel spreadies, so you usually need either Excel (part of the MS Office suite) or OpenOffice (which is a very good and very well-respected free download. There may be an Apple equivalent, though. I haven't heard of anyone not being able to run the spreadies on a Mac.

This is the FSA Policy Document PS 10/12, and the DISP APP 3 rules I was quoting come from the PPI Dispute Resolution Handbook in Appendix 1 & 2:-

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/policy/ps10_12.pdf

Similar in principle to the regs that you have quoted - not sure where from ?

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Hi Bill, many thanks for clarifying that, my other half uses a pc so he's just dowloaded the spreadsheet - wondered why it was quiet here yesterday, no problem. I found the guidelines here http://fsahandbook.info/FSA/html/handbook/DISP/App/3/3 probably the same as yours.

Yet another question for those far more knowledgeable than myself......

OK so now I'm thinking ahead. Yesterday 3 letters went off to Lloyds, 1 for myself re: my business loans/1 for my other half on his personal loans - in his case he received a letter after the 8 weeks stating it would take yet another 8 weeks, I therefore took the opportunity to clarify the points in our original letter plus the FSA rules etc. and the 3rd one to Lloyds as my other half had a rejection letter on ppi on his credit card - again I quoted rules similar to above.

I have still not received my rejection on ppi on my credit card from Lloyds although I should get it this week and am expecting a rejection based on the fact that they seem to reject everything!

So, with regard to the Loans ppi - I am wondering whether it is necessary to go to the Ombudsman in the event of a further rejection. I think this is exactly what Lloyds are expecting clients to do knowing full well it could take up to a year to get resolved and the Ombudsman service is free!

My thoughts therefore are either getting a Solicitor to deal with it (this would not cost I think as much as a claims company) or taking Court action myself. I think I prefer the Solicitor route actually as although it would involve some costs, my other half's loans are in double figures and mine are not far short so I think it could be worth it.

What do you all think about this? Also I think it would possibly be slightly quicker and I would anticipate if the case was proven against Lloyds which again, I think it would be, that they would settle out of Court at the last moment.

Look forward to hearing your views on this and sorry to keep asking questions!

[Bill-K]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

I have a small number of 'favourite' DISP APP 3 paras which I regularly quote, but those which you quoted weren't among them - so I should have checked. Yes, indeedy, Daisy - we are singing from the same hymn sheet !!!

We generally do not recommend going via the courts with PPI claims, for a number of reasons:

There are no costs - nor any risk of costs - in taking our claim to the FOS. However the FOS DO charge the lender if they take on a claim (whether it is upheld or not) - and I believe this is now £850. The FOS also may order additional compensation to be paid where the lender has not acted reasonably. Although costs are limited in Small Claims, claim submission fees and solicitor's fees still have to be paid - AND - contrary to popular belief, the plaintiff CAN be ordered to pay some or all of the defendant's costs in certain circumstances ('Wasted Costs' is one example, I believe). There is also no guarantee that the court route will be any quicker in the end.

The PS10/12 rules are just FSA guidelines which lenders are required to adhere to by the FOS. They are NOT, by themselves, legally enforceable in court. However, the FOS uses these in its determinations - and if a FOS final decision is not then implemented by the lender, then the decision CAN be enforced by the courts.

If a complaint is not upheld by the FOS, then it can still be taken to court. The reverse is not possible, though, as the FOS cannot reverse a court's legal ruling. So, if we use the FOS route, we still have a second string to our bow. If we use the court route, we only have one shot at the target.

A further step which is often effective is to complain to the CEO, and I believe Di30 has used this effectively on a number of occasions. This seems to have a 'focussing' effect, and the claim may then be referred to an 'engineer' to deal with properly - as opposed to an 'oily rag' to dismiss without the use of a brain cell !!!

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Hi Bill, many thanks for that additional info. You are of course correct it is important to go down the correct route, I will give myself a big kick!

As regards complaining to the CEO, another big kick for me. I have done this in the past on unrelated matters writing directly to the Chairman and it is had the desired results.

So without further ado, and as I have been told I have yet another 8 weeks to wait, I think I shall send copies of everything I have so far to the Chairman and hope for his intervention. As you quite rightly say, at least it will be dealt with by someone with hopefully a little more sense and knowledge than oily rags at call centres !

Tomorrow morning I shall be on the phone to find out who is Chairman of Lloyds at this moment in time, I remember when trying to find out this info before, it wasn't exactly forthcoming although heaven knows why - they seemed to want to know all the why's and wherefore's but I got there in the end!

[Bill-K]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Cheers Daisy - I'm glad my suggestions seemed to make sense.

The constant fobbing-off and stonewalling by 'Customer Services' departments seems to have forced many of us into contacting CEO's in order to get our complaint dealt with intelligently, and this method seems to have now become a commonly-used tool - as opposed to a last resort. Being unfamiliar with the finer points of this approach has prompted me to start a thread for pooling our experience. Thanks for posting in there.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...CEO-s-amp-MP-s

[DAISYC3CJS]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

No problem Bill, I have actually managed to find a list of CEO'S with their various companies and addresses to write to, if it would help I would be happy to post it on here, just let me know where? Also I have just finishished my letter to the CEO of Lloyds who I believe is Mr. Antonio Horte-Osorio but I will double check tomorrow before sending. Again, I can make my letter as a guide/rough template just tell me where to post ok

[Bill-K]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Yep, I do believe António Horta-Osório is still LTSB's CEO, having returned from sick leave for (allegedly) doing 12-hour days - yet not being able to sleep. The word 'guilt' seems to sum that particular problem up in one word !!!

With the recent LIBOR scandal, I guess there will be some changes over the coming months - so any list of CEO's needs to be updated regularly. I consider Di30 as our resident CEO 'guru,' and I hope she will be able to help with this, along with others who may well be just as ahead of the game. If it's an online link, then I think that would be better than posting a 'static' list of CEO's, as it will (hopefully) be kept updated. But a 'generic' template letter would also be brilliant, Daisy.

My suggestion would be that you post the link and the letter in the 'CEO' thread, as a central point for now. Hopefully, it will encourage some further contributions. Be prepared for criticism, though - it's the way we work here, all for the common good. Just don't take any verbal abuse - especially from me.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...CEO-s-amp-MP-s

[di30]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Oh, I should have added at the outset, I also have a credit card PPI with Lloyds - am expecting a rejection letter any day now! Would the same wording apply do you think?

Hi Daisy

Sorry for the delay in responding (Cheers Bill)
Bill is right about the reasons of mis selling of credit card ppi. Well basically what I mean is, they do not actually treat it the same as loan ppi.
Credit card ppi can cover for various areas, such as Sickness, unemployment, life cover, job solutions and hospital cover.

But the fact here is that if the PPI did not cover you for ALL benefits, then its unfair that you should be paying full ppi cover for a polucy that you are not fully covered for.

For example one of mine, back in about 2001 I was sold a credit card with ppi, and back then was just receiving benefits for my children, my hubby had his own and was not at all part of my account, he was working where i wasnt, and was classed as an homemaker.

When learning over these past years of the mis selling of ppi, I realised on researching that I was sold a product that was not fully suited to me.
I wrote to them and complained that they wrongly sold me PPI - and at the time, as proven on the credit agreement that i was a homemaker.
They are first rejected my complaint by writing that, I would have still be eligible for other benefits such as job solutions, hospital cover and life cover.

I wasnt having any of it, so forwarded more information and told them how wrong it was to sell PPI to a customer who had no income, and just received the children's benefits, and despite them stating that I would still still be covered for other benefits, I disagreed and told them the policy was utterly worthless to me, and why should I pay for something that did not fully protect me.

The finally upheld it.

[di30]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

I would like to post some email addresses in relation of Lloyds, I'm sure it will be fine, or they would not of course broadcast them on the CEO list lol, and it appears that apart from the Mr Antonio from Lloyds there are others too, so yes Bill, I agree that it's best to regularly check updates of CEO's etc, as this can change from time to time, I shall dig these out and post in below post shortly.

[Bill-K]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

...f the PPI did not cover you for ALL benefits, then its unfair that you should be paying full ppi cover for a polucy that you are not fully covered for.

Good point, Di. Whether it was totally or partially unsuitable is irrelevant - if you were paying the full price, then it should be FULLY suitable.

It would seem, from the link that Tuttsi posted in the CEO thread, that these are the 'BUSINESS' email addresses for the CEO's, and NOT their private email addresses. As such, they are public knowledge, as the businesses are public businesses (plc 's, etc...) - The banks just don't want too many peeps to know about them !!! :director:

[di30]

Re: Lloyds ppi business loan mis selling whatever next !

Antonio Osorio, Chief Executive:
antonio.osorio@lloydsbanking.com

George Culmer, Finance Director:
george.culmer@lloydsbanking.com

paul.gittins@lloydsbanking.com
Company Secretary.

This covers all the below business/banks. Such as
Lloyds TSB Group/Bank of Scotland, Scottish Widows, HBOS, Blair Oliver & Scott.