BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

[Bazza]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

This is the bit at the moment that bothers me......................just what have you got ?

Yes its also bothering me Fred.

The BH credit agreement & legal mortgage details provided has no seal just states second mortgage.

has our signatures and witness details no date.

Then a hand written date 'By this Deed made on the XXXX ' the parties agreed to loan.

A hand written agreement number.

Loan repayment details etc

Also the date stated was the same date as the cheque submitted.

Should there have been a cooling off period ?

[Fred]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

So the "first charge" & "second charge" are/were with the same lender originally ? the second charge is now sold on to the company you mention above (Skye) ?

Please accept my apologies in advance if I read it wrongly.

What date was this "second charge" taken out ?

[Bazza]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

So the "first charge" & "second charge" are/were with the same lender originally ? the second charge is now sold on to the company you mention above (Skye) ?

Please accept my apologies in advance if I read it wrongly.

What date was this "second charge" taken out ?

Sorry Fred for delay in reply had to pop out.

First charge different lender.

Second charge was BH sold on to Skye Loans.

Second charge date on agreement 5/12/01.

[Sparkie1723]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

I would suggest very strongly that you seek real legal advice on this as it appears to me that a "legal" assignment has not and cannot have taken place ...............and that " Novatiion" should have/has taken place.

Look up the differences between Equitable Assignments..................Legal Assignments....... and Novation of contracts/agreements.
I do not suggest I am an expert of any description on this .........but suggest you get a legal opinion on what Black Horse has done.

Sparkie

[Bazza]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

I would suggest very strongly that you seek real legal advice on this as it appears to me that a "legal" assignment has not and cannot have taken place ...............and that " Novatiion" should have/has taken place.

Look up the differences between Equitable Assignments..................Legal Assignments....... and Novation of contracts/agreements.
I do not suggest I am an expert of any description on this .........but suggest you get a legal opinion on what Black Horse has done.

Sparkie

Many Thanks Sparkie.

I will do and much appreciated.

[Enzoey]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

Many Thanks Sparkie.

I will do and much appreciated.

How did this unfold, as my mother is in a similar case?

[Bazza]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

I would suggest very strongly that you seek real legal advice on this as it appears to me that a "legal" assignment has not and cannot have taken place ...............and that " Novatiion" should have/has taken place.

Look up the differences between Equitable Assignments..................Legal Assignments....... and Novation of contracts/agreements.
I do not suggest I am an expert of any description on this .........but suggest you get a legal opinion on what Black Horse has done.

Sparkie

Apologies but I have been sidetracked with illness in family issues but now would like to get back on track with this one.

Can anyone possibly elaborate on what was previously mentioned by Sparkie1723 ?

I would just like to get an understanding before taking the matter forward or seeking legal advice.

Thank-you

[R0b]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

Legal assignment = an assignment in accordance with section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. A legal assignment will transfer the benefit of the contract e.g. The right to receive payment from you but not the obligations under the contract. They must also notify you in writing that it has been assigned to the third party. A legal assignment is always subject to equities, meaning that if you have a defence or legal right against the original creditor prior to it being assigned then you are entitled to use that defence/right against the third party taking over.

Equitable assignment = once which does not need to be in writing, you do not have to be informed. The key difference is that usually the third party who has the agreement assigned cannot bring a claim in their own name and it must be the original creditor who assigned it and the third party joined as an interested party. The courts on occasions have allowed the third party to bring a claim in their own name but in exceptional circumstances e.g. The original creditor no longer around. Otherwise the reason for having the original creditor is to prevent further claims being made against you and to ensure that there has been a proper legal assignment if there is a dispute.

Novation = an agreement which must be in writing and signed that transfers both the rights and obligations under the contract to the third party. Novations don't usually happen because they require consent from both parties and can be complicated but it does happen quite a bit in software licence agreements.

[Bazza]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

Legal assignment = an assignment in accordance with section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. A legal assignment will transfer the benefit of the contract e.g. The right to receive payment from you but not the obligations under the contract. They must also notify you in writing that it has been assigned to the third party. A legal assignment is always subject to equities, meaning that if you have a defence or legal right against the original creditor prior to it being assigned then you are entitled to use that defence/right against the third party taking over.

Equitable assignment = once which does not need to be in writing, you do not have to be informed. The key difference is that usually the third party who has the agreement assigned cannot bring a claim in their own name and it must be the original creditor who assigned it and the third party joined as an interested party. The courts on occasions have allowed the third party to bring a claim in their own name but in exceptional circumstances e.g. The original creditor no longer around. Otherwise the reason for having the original creditor is to prevent further claims being made against you and to ensure that there has been a proper legal assignment if there is a dispute.

Novation = an agreement which must be in writing and signed that transfers both the rights and obligations under the contract to the third party. Novations don't usually happen because they require consent from both parties and can be complicated but it does happen quite a bit in software licence agreements.

A belated thank-you R0b, apologies but I have other issues that needed addressing urgently.

Ok I will need to look at the above to try and understand what's going on.

In the meantime, Skye Loans are still refusing to accept Account in Dispute letter and are adding fees every month. They still cannot provide evidence of the original arrears amount.

They are now pressurising us on a daily basis with threatening letters and constantly calling my OH mobile number in which we believe was given by BH. She eventually answered it and had a conversation with an Arrears Officer at Skye who was rather rude to say the least and had my OH in tears.

They said if arrears not paid then they would start court action and asked if we had any equity in our property to sell our house to pay of disputed arrears amount of approx £2,600 !

My OH said that the balance keeps increasing even though she has been making regular monthly payments. They also suggested that if amount is increased then it will be paid off by end of term of original loan. They have now today sent another letter asking us to complete an expenditure statement, to provide 3 months pay-slips and bank statements within 7 days. They also say that they will continue to add default fees whilst the account still has arrears.

Now both of us are at our wits end what to do next especially as we are now being constantly harassed.

We are sure something does not sit right with this but don't know what to do next. Do we need to complete what they have requested or agree to demands for bank statements ?

Do we need to send a SAR ?

We see that Skye are regulated by the FCA.

Any help would be very much appreciated thank-you.

[R0b]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

Hi Bazza,

I've tagged @nemesis45 and [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] as they have better knowledge than me on what to do next, although it would seem that adding on charges without conducting and/or completing an investigation would appear to go against the FCA rules. I'd have to look at the specific rule but I am sure where there is a disputed debt then they shouldn't continue to add charges or interest until full investigation and outcome has been concluded.

Your option on that point could be to make an official complaint and go down the Financial Obudsman route - should they initiate a claim in the meantime, you could argue that any proceedings should be stayed pending the outcome of your complaint.

As I said though, Amethyst / Nemesis might have better ideas on the next steps.

[nemesis45]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

Hi Bazza,

I've tagged @nemesis45 and @Amethyst as they have better knowledge than me on what to do next, although it would seem that adding on charges without conducting and/or completing an investigation would appear to go against the FCA rules. I'd have to look at the specific rule but I am sure where there is a disputed debt then they shouldn't continue to add charges or interest until full investigation and outcome has been concluded.

Your option on that point could be to make an official complaint and go down the Financial Obudsman route - should they initiate a claim in the meantime, you could argue that any proceedings should be stayed pending the outcome of your complaint.

As I said though, Amethyst / Nemesis might have better ideas on the next steps.

Just a thought has this been addressed as a Formal Complaint in regard to the " account in dispute " scenario and or the failure to give due consideration to a debtors financial circumstances e.g. lower payments cessation of fees /charges.

nem

[Bazza]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

Hi Bazza,

I've tagged @nemesis45 and @Amethyst as they have better knowledge than me on what to do next, although it would seem that adding on charges without conducting and/or completing an investigation would appear to go against the FCA rules. I'd have to look at the specific rule but I am sure where there is a disputed debt then they shouldn't continue to add charges or interest until full investigation and outcome has been concluded.

Your option on that point could be to make an official complaint and go down the Financial Obudsman route - should they initiate a claim in the meantime, you could argue that any proceedings should be stayed pending the outcome of your complaint.

As I said though, Amethyst / Nemesis might have better ideas on the next steps.

Thanks again R0b

So no pressure to supply banks statements etc ?

Cheers

[Bazza]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

Just a thought has this been addressed as a Formal Complaint in regard to the " account in dispute " scenario and or the failure to give due consideration to a debtors financial circumstances e.g. lower payments cessation of fees /charges.

nem

Nem,

It was not only in dispute regarding arrears with Skye but also with BH.

Never received a formal reply from either apart from request for balance of arrears and added fees.

Now further threats and harassment and ignoring original arrears breakdown request.

They have only submitted statement with arrears balance forming part of outstanding loan.

[R0b]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

The fact that they are threatening court action, you should still take it seirously, but in my opinion, I would never hand over any bank statements to a debt collector/purchaser. A budget sheet would be sufficient to show your outgoings and what you can afford.

If you have already made a complaint then perhaps you should start looking at a complaint to the Ombudsman as soon as possible. Alternatively, you could bat back a letter outlining a complaint if you have not made one officially, and we could reference the relevant FCA Rules and that as they are regulated b ythe FCA they must comply, failure to do so then you will bring the letter to the courts attention in relation to their unreasonable conduct.

And of course if they haven't provided the information and chosen to ignore and instead harass you then I guess that goes against the industry codes of practice (if there is one) and potentially harrassment too.

[Bazza]

Re: BlackHorse Secured Loan now with Skye Loans Limited

The fact that they are threatening court action, you should still take it seirously, but in my opinion, I would never hand over any bank statements to a debt collector/purchaser. A budget sheet would be sufficient to show your outgoings and what you can afford.

If you have already made a complaint then perhaps you should start looking at a complaint to the Ombudsman as soon as possible. Alternatively, you could bat back a letter outlining a complaint if you have not made one officially, and we could reference the relevant FCA Rules and that as they are regulated b ythe FCA they must comply, failure to do so then you will bring the letter to the courts attention in relation to their unreasonable conduct.

And of course if they haven't provided the information and chosen to ignore and instead harass you then I guess that goes against the industry codes of practice (if there is one) and potentially harrassment too.

Ok thanks again R0b

We are quite happy to submit a budget sheet but was concerned regarding request for bank statements / pay-slips.

Current payments are still being made but no breakdown of arrears was ever provided - Just continuous payment for arrears amount.

Perhaps we will submit a formal complaint letter with budget sheet included and a request for interest to be frozen ?