LavenderRose Hardship claim

[LavenderRose]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Thankyou Amethyst thats a good idea. I have an overdraft facility but its only £100 and im only about £60 into it. The charges go out, my benefits straighten my account again but Ive not must left to draw out to live on. I will go to the Post Office tomorrow and open an account. My internet will be back on by Monday latest so I can read through more threads. amethyst and Scoobs your very much appreciated.

Cheers x

[LavenderRose]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Hiya yeeaah im back on line, and with cable too, so much better and faster. I havent sent the letter to bank yet im not sure if you had finished it amethyst with the interest bit. If you have could you direct me to where the letter is please. Ive also been to an appeal against the council for lack of benefits to my housing and c.tax. What a case that was but I think ive won. Ive been given 21 days to provide an itemised phone bill as they said they record their calls and that I had never rang them to keep in touch and I said I could prove it. The council reps face was a picture. Im just waiting for the bills to come through and then I can highlight the calls I made and then send it off to the tribunal and then its looking like i will get my back pay AND he will want to know why they say they record calls when they hadnt. Its a long story but a success one non the less. Good to be back x

[LavenderRose]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Hello, Im still waiting for a reply from the house of commons guy I know about the true meaning of the social security act but I know he was at Westiminster all last week so hopefully I will get one soon. Do you want me to email you the reply letter Amethyst so that you can put it on here as I dont know how to do that. I can scan it and email it to you. I was also reading the memo you put on where the OFT said they think that rbs bank charges are probably unfair. Thats my bank so would that affect my claim with them. Just wondered with me saying they are unfair as well in my letter would they be more inclined to pay them back to me. Hope you know what I mean. I want to be posting my letter and charges list Monday. This move has delayed me but im all sorted now.

Thanks
LavenderRose

[Celestine]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Hi lavender

Legal Beagles


Here is the link to the prelim letter Ame mentioned earlier. Apologies that the interest bit hasn't been added, maybe someone else can suggest a suitable way of paraphrasing that you wish to add 8% interest to your charges as compensation for having been deprived of this money over the last x years. You can phrase it how you like so long as you don't refer to it as County Court interest because you can't add that till a claim is filed at court.

Have a trawl through the other hardship threads. There are some really good letters about hardship conditions that you may wish to incorporate into your letter.

Have you done a spreadsheet of all your charges yet?

[LavenderRose]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Thanks for that I will have a look through them. I have done my spreadsheet of charges for 18 months I am claiming charges back and I have also done the 18 month spreadsheet on a monthly basis to show how much I should get a month in benefits, how much charges have been deducted and how much I have been left to live on. I will add the 8% bit but I will post it on here to make sure its ok before I post it. Cheers Celestine.

I will post the reply when I get it.

LavenderRose x

[LavenderRose]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Hello i just wondered a friend of mine wrote last year to claim charges back and she received a letter in June 08 which she has recently found and has showed it to me as I was telling her I was claiming mine back. On the back it says this:-

Further help
you have the right to refer your complaint to the FOS or the courts. However the FOS has agreed not to act on any complaints until the legal proceedings between the banks and the OFT have been concluded. Should you issue a claim in the courts we will apply for a court order to put your claim on hold pending the outcome of the proceedings in the high court.

In other words its saying your wasting your time claiming as although there is further help they are not going to help you. Is this true as there is no mention of the hardship bit. It also says that the FSA have agreed to this subject to conditions that protect your rights but it doesnt say what your rights are. My friend seems to think im wasting my time and that I will not get anywhere and now im confused. I cant afford for it to go to court and lose and end up with more costs. I was buzzing before that and certain I would eventually win my charges back.

What does anyone think or has things changed since this letter dated 11th June 08. It also says that the banks are going to keep on asking the courts to keep claims on hold until the test case process is concluded. This could take years if they continue to appeal and it ends up in the European courts.

[Tempty]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Hi Lavender
don't give up hope hun
things have changed since then, In July the FSA announced new guidelines concerning hardship cases and the way the banks have to deal with them. (take a look at the stickied threads at the top of this forum)

This does not automatically mean that you will get a full refund of all charges... however it does mean that the banks have to take steps to protect you from further charges snowballing out of control. I've noticed that those whose main cause of hardship is the bank themselves are the ones that seem to be getting the best results. from what I've read here .....you've got a damn good chance

My advice ...... you've nothing to lose and everything to gain.
worse case .... you don't get an offer, but they hold all further charges and stop the snowball effect.
best case ...... you get an offer

[Budgie]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

OK

Here is a version of the standard preliminary letter with the compensatory interest clause added.
Note that you should refer to this as compensatory interest and not statutory court interest. Basically because you haven't started a court claim at this stage.

Budgie

Your Name
Your Address
Postcode


DATE xx/xx/xxxx

Banks Name
Address
Address
Postcode



Dear Sir/Madam

Refund of Insufficient Funds Charges Request

ACCOUNT NUMBER (S): xxxxxxxx


I request a refund of the various "Insufficient Funds" charges which you have taken from my account over the last XX years.

Further to recent publicity covering the High Court Test Case between the Office of Fair Trading and the Banks, I am now aware that these charges may be considered unlawful at Common Law and Statute.

The High Court has decided that recent charges applied to my account can be assessed for fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

I believe these charges to be unfair as the terms which apply them fall under the remit of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Schedule 2 - paragraph (e) which states that contract terms which have the object or effect of ''(e) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation'' may be regarded as unfair.

Additionally, I believe that older charges applied to my account are unlawful penalty charges and as such are irrecoverable at common law. Precedents for this include, but are not limited to, Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915] AC 79, Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963 and CMC Group Plc And Others V Zhang [2006] EWCA Civ 408.

If you believe that these charges are not unlawful penalties then I would be grateful if you would demonstrate this by providing me with a full breakdown of the costs you have incurred as a result of my breaches of contract, in order to satisfy me that your charges really do reflect your actual costs.

I calculate that you have taken £ XXXX from my account in unlawful charges. Additionally, you have charged me interest on those unlawful charges which I estimate at £XXX. I also consider that I should be compensated for the "time value" loss of my money, unlawfully taken from my account, I consider a suitable compensatory payment to be £xxxx

Therefore the total that I require you to repay to me is £xxxx.

I have attached a schedule of the charges you have taken and which I require refunding to me.

Note to Claimer : Only include a schedule of the charges at this stage ( not an interest spreadsheet )

You have 14 days to reply to me, accepting unconditionally my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive my refund.

If you fail to respond, or fail to respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days.

At the expiry of the second deadline, I shall commence a County Court claim against you without further notice and my claim at that time will include Court costs and interest.


Yours faithfully,

OPTIONS

Do you Consider Yourself to be suffering from financial hardship ?

Because of the ongoing Test Case, between the OFT and the Banks, the FSA have granted the Banks a Waiver. This basically means they do not have to follow the usual complaints procedure agreed with the FSA. Your claim will probably be responded to with a message regarding the Test Case and put in the ON HOLD pile to be dealt with when the Test Case is resolved.

There are certain circumstances which may allow you to bypass the waiver and have your complaint dealt with on the basis of financial hardship. These circumstances can be viewed HERE

If you feel these circumstances apply then you may wish to insert this paragraph into your letter :-

"I note the FSA’s definition of Financial Hardship as detailed in the updated Waiver and believe that I meet these criteria and wish you to deal with my refund request accordingly".

Then briefly outline why you consider yourself to be be suffering financial hardship.

This may not mean your refund is made directly but it could mean that the Banks offer some other form of assistance whilst the test case is ongoing.


Have you been Defaulted due to these unfair charges ?

If you have been defaulted on your account due to the overdraft charges incurred then you can request that the default marks on your credit record are removed by inserting this paragraph into the letter. If you are unsure if this is the case you should check your credit record with the main Credit reference agencies.

:
Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you. In addition to full payment of the sum detailed above I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable. Should this not be undertaken I will be forced to make a claim under s.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 which will incur further costs.

Are the Bank chasing you for repayment of an overdraft or debt created by the charges ?

You will be aware that under the Banking Code, to which you subscribe, you may not default my account or take further enforcement action whilst the debt is in dispute. As I now consider the account to be in dispute it is in both our interests to come to a swift resolution.

[LavenderRose]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Budgie your a diamond and tempty thanku for your words of encouragement. The letter is A1 I could never in a million years of put a letter like that together. i will copy this today and send it off. I appreciate the work you have put into it and the time you have taken to post it on here for me. many thanks. My bank charges are one of three claims I am dealing with. 18 months ago I started to suffer hardship due to the bank charges, to top it all the council stopped my benefits in Jan and its taken me till now to take them to a tribunal for the benefits which im certain I have won. The council said they record all calls and that I have not made any to them. I said I could prove it with itemised phone bills so they have given me 21 days to produce them. When I send them highlighting the many calls i made to the council Im 99% sure they will vote in my favour. I work alongside local councillors and one of them came with me to the appeal. Thats how I know the Rt Hon guy who resides in the house of commons who used to be the main guy on the board on social security. I have written to him to ask if the social security act applies to bank charges and will be posting his reply on this site when I get it. I also due to hardship had a bailiff come to my house for c.tax arrears and he said if I didnt pay in two days £459 he would hand my case over to the police who will arrest me and put me in prison. I know my account was only £229 so he has added charges way over what he should and has committed a breach of his code of conduct by threatening prison so ive complained to the council and written to the bailiffs for a breakdown of my charges and screen dumps of my account. I got a reply from them which was one line saying my account has been passed back to the council and all correspondence needs to go to them from now on. Ive also had a letter from council telling me which enforcement agency they are registered with so they are getting a complaint too. I was going to post the whole saga for anyone who might be in the same position but its a long story and I didnt want to bore anyone or for anyone to nodd off reading it.lol I am so grateful to this site as I didnt know what to do and my finances were getting worse. I will let you know the outcome of my letter and as soon as i receive a reply from the house of commons I will let you know immediately. I will email it to Amethyst as i dont know how to put it on here with out typing it all out and i would rather it have the house of commons logo on so that ppl know the true facts. I have also learnt everything from you ppl and did not know anything of my rights before I found this site.

I hope you understand this post and ive not confused anyone.
Many thanks

LavenderRose x

[LavenderRose]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

sorry but your going to think im thick now. I was doing ok with the letter until I got to the interest bit and the time value loss of money. is this interest the £1 odd thats taken from my account each month? and what amount do I put for time value loss compensation? sorry but ive no idea what amount to put here.

LavenderRose :confused2:

[Amethyst]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

For compensatory interest use your 8% stat interest figure honey. You need to complete the stat interest spreadsheet to get this figure.


The interest charged on the charges would be a proportion of the £1 odd you are charged each month yes. Depends how much of your OD is charges and how much spend each time you are charged it. So kind of think 30% of total OD interest is pretty average, but if all your overdraft is always charges (eg your charges amount each month is about same as your OD balance each month it would be all of it). Its just an estimate because its not very much, the bank can work it out, and the spready for working it out takes foreverrrrrrrrrrr to fill in.

[LavenderRose]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Thanks for that your a gem.lol oh my god what a pun.lol Much appreciated.

LavenderRose x

[LavenderRose]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Hiya Amethyst, I could do with some advice if this is the right site with a bailiff.

Due to bank charges taking my tax credits each month since April 2007 as you know its a vicious circle with all the bills etc. I also have 4 children and 1 grand daughter who I see everyday as I love her to bits. I only work part time at the moment and I have done for the last 4 years. I am hoping to go full time next year when my youngest starts secondary school.

I have been getting housing benefit and council tax benefit with no problems for three and a half yrs then just before xmas 07 I was asked for my tax cred letter which I sent, ALL 8 pages of it. I only received the first 4 pages back and then two wks later I got a claim form through the post but no letter explaining why the council had sent it.

I filled it in and in the new year sent it off and then two weeks later received a letter saying they had cancelled my claim for benefits from beginning Jan 08.

That started a 7 month battle to get my benefits but everytime I claimed and couldnt produce the full 8 pages of my tax creds even though they still had the other half (obviously lost it) they kept cancelling my claims so in June I took them to a tribunal for the past 6/7 months benefit backpay. I thought I was losing until the appeals guy asked why they could not of taken my tax cred payments from the bank account statements I had sent in as it was clearly stated that it was a t.c payment and how much.

They couldnt really answer and I stated I sent letters and made lots of phone calls to keep in touch with the council regarding my claim. The council said they record ALL their calls and that I had only made one to which I replied I can prove it by my itemised phone bill.

The appeal guy has given me 21 days to produce my itemised phone bill showing the calls I made. It looks like if he gets this I may have won as they had lied. I rang BT as soon as I got home but couldnt get through till the day after. I received my itemised bills today and I cant believe they are not itemised as I asked (and paid for) £4.50 each. I needed 3 but kindly only charged me for 2. I stressed I needed the local calls itemised and shown on the bill because it was for an appeal case and I had 21 days. I now have 10 days to get them and it took BT a week to get them to me. I have to go through them then send them to the appeals guy.

So with my bank charges going out from my tax credits, (your helping me claim my charges back), my lack of housing benefit/c.tax benefit for 8 months (claiming 6 in appeal) and 2 thru usual channels, its no wonder I couldnt pay all my rent and c.tax.

I got a bailiff at my door (this is about 5th one) in 2 years (theres reason it goes back 2 yrs which I will explain another time) due to c.tax arrears. The bailiff said he wanted £459 within 2 days or he will hand my case over to the police and I will be put in jail and sent to prison. I started panicking as im a single mother so I come under the vulnerable group, I explained the history with council and appeal and also explained we had recently been robbed in our own home and my son was threatened with his life if he told anyone. He is only 16 and terrified him and my other kids to the point me and my partner and kids have moved. Anyway the bailiff wasnt interested when I told him this and I said how come they dont put real criminals in jail yet me who has never committed a crime, doesnt take drugs or drinks, works for a community centre alongside partners like the police, fire service, councillors, schools, churches, local library etc (i could go on) yet I would go to jail because I couldnt afford to pay full c.tax and rent PLUS arrears on top each week. It was more than I earned just with those two and he said simply, I had two days. I offered him £100 over 4 wks and on the 5th the £59 and he refused it. I said what will happen to me if I can only get half of it in 2 days time, thinking of my kids who were within ear shot of the door due to past events and so was a friend and my partner and his words were it will be out of my hands and with the police so it will be for them 2 decide but you will more than likely be arrested and put in prison. I couldnt believe it. I know its complicated but to put it brief I have ongoing at the mo.


1. claim for bank charges back
2. claim against bailiff conduct and charges
3. claim agains PCC for non payment of benefits

The day after the bailiff had been I found this site and another like this and started staying up till all hours reading these threads gobsmacked that so many ppl had encountered the same thing so I took their advice and started by sending a letter to the council to complain about bailiff as I had learnt he cannot threaten me with prison, he has overcharged me and charged me for a levy that never took place and at least 3 vans that i had never seen, and for misconduct of a vulnerable person.

I had to send 2 letters to the bailiff to get my breakdown as the 1st reply was a one liner saying my account had gone back to the council (how convenient). I sent 2nd letter saying not good enough and breakdown or court and complaint to enforcement agency.

The help I need is what to do about their reply, the bailiffs response and the breakdown of visits, charges, letters etc as I have never read so much pooh in my life. The bailiff strongly denies having said any of the above and stated he may of mentioned committal. I had 4 people there who heard him all beit family but they were saying you are not going to jail no matter what within 2 minutes of the bailiff leaving. I asked for screen dumps of my account. If these are screen dumps then im the virgin Mary!! I could type these up just like this.

I do apologise to everyone reading this for it being so long and believe me i have cut the ins and outs from it and I hope you have not become bored. Im just gobsmacked at the audacity of him lying and they belive him! They said they hope I find this satisfactory! Aparently I had a yellow door when he visited a couple of months ago and ive been to CAB and been advised by them. I have never been to CAB in my life.

Im getting so confused with all the letters to write with the bank charges thing, the benefits I want paying back from the council and the bailiffs and their extortionate charges.

I have learnt so much from this site it feels like home but how can I send my form 4 and take him to court when my witnesses were my family and In my head I know the things I want to put in a letter and what id love to say but couldnt I wouldnt know where to start with a letter that would shock them into paying me what they owe me and realising that I am telling the truth and the bailiff isnt.

Im still waiting for the councils report from him but I must admit they have been very good in dealing with this.

Ive also got a small claim with them for bank chrges incurred due to them trying to take £262 from my bank in April for payment when I had only agreed £35. I may need help with that too. I have never let a bailiff in or signed anything. I have loads of receipts from when i did pay the bailiff and I need help and guidance as its all just going over my head now.

My post wont be anywhere near as long as this again but I had to fit it all in. I really want to win these 3 claims because I work damn hard for my money, I get harrassed when I owe it but when they owe it they make you wait months and months, im sick of being ripped off and them thinking I dont know better and I am not prepared to let them get away with an injustice that has not only made me and my family suffer but almost lost us our home through repossession. We have since moved recently as you know.

The Rt Hon guy I wrote to at the house of commons has been abroad (lucky sod) but will be visiting our event this weekend so If I have heard nothing by letter I will ask him personally and ask that he puts it in writing.

Thankyou for your patience in reading this, thank god for this site and i would be forever in your debt or anyones if they could advise me what to do about bailiff or even better if one of the experts could put me a cracking letter together. If you want me to post the 9 page response from bailiffs on here I will but I would have to type it as i dont know how else to do it.lol I dont mind though I am a fast typist. I can build pc`s and repair them hardware or software issues but i cant scan and post a letter to a site like this.

Thank you for reading and so so sorry it goes on and on. I hope I get a few replies of help I would be grateful for anyones input.

Thanks again
LavenderRose

[Amethyst]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Hi hunny am reading and getting kids sorted for school so will read and reply properly when I get back from the school run. i might stick a couple paragraphs in tho lol.

I'm not hugely wonderful on bailiffs but I know a man who is so will summarise your issues and see if we an do anything on that score. some of them are complete ******s.

[Guest]

Re: LavenderRose Hardship claim

Hi LavenderRose

Please PM me with the name of the bailiff who visited you and told you these things and the company he works for. Also, which local council area are you in?

Do not post it on here, send me a private message with the information and I will get back to you.