Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

[dogtired]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

It is unclear Di, the Bank of Scotland one had been with Cabot for some time and when I put it in dispute, they returned my CCA fee and referred me back to the OC.
I do not believe that its was "assignees" properly as all I got at the beginning was a "hello" letter from Cabot and in the same envelope a what i now know to be dodgy "we have past your debt to Cabot" They over a period of five months failed to provide any thing like "proof" that they "owned" the remaining balance.
I got a letter from them in July, last year, saying that they now considered in "irretrievable four weeks letter i got the "successful" decision from FOS but all BOS sent me was £80, I assume Cabot got the remainder as I did not get any acknowledgement from them until April this year.
Sainsbury (same group) also took a while as at first they declined the claim, I had been on a payment plan with them and they told me it had defaulted, however this happened during the PPI dispute and they would not listen to me or put the account on hold until it was relived.
The FOS had to really harass them and I eventually got an offer letter on and a cheque for the full amount on the following Monday.
On the same Friday I go a "Hello" letter from Robinson Way, rang to object that it was now resolved, a week later got another "hello" from Blair Oliver, via the "customer relations" wrote back that time asking for "proof" that this was still owing.
They ignored this and we played letter tennis to them and customer relations for several months, that is when I di a CCA and they paid it into the disputed account.
Along with this CCA was yet another poor copy of my original application form and a "reconstituted" copy of the terms and conditions, however this had the wrong name on it.
me being a generous person informed them of this, all I got back was "we gave looked into this and we are right as your address is right and the remaining balance is still due"
Another week later got another letter from Robinson Way, wrote back with "prove it"
Then i got yet another letter from Wescott again they have failed to come up with anything, and it is still on hold.
Back with the FOS and I have also raised a complaint with the ICO.
Its about a year since i paid anything for this .
You really could not make it up!

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

It is unclear Di, the Bank of Scotland one had been with Cabot for some time and when I put it in dispute, they returned my CCA fee and referred me back to the OC.
I do not believe that its was "assignees" properly as all I got at the beginning was a "hello" letter from Cabot and in the same envelope a what i now know to be dodgy "we have past your debt to Cabot" They over a period of five months failed to provide any thing like "proof" that they "owned" the remaining balance.
I got a letter from them in July, last year, saying that they now considered in "irretrievable four weeks letter i got the "successful" decision from FOS but all BOS sent me was £80, I assume Cabot got the remainder as I did not get any acknowledgement from them until April this year.
Sainsbury (same group) also took a while as at first they declined the claim, I had been on a payment plan with them and they told me it had defaulted, however this happened during the PPI dispute and they would not listen to me or put the account on hold until it was relived.
The FOS had to really harass them and I eventually got an offer letter on and a cheque for the full amount on the following Monday.
On the same Friday I go a "Hello" letter from Robinson Way, rang to object that it was now resolved, a week later got another "hello" from Blair Oliver, via the "customer relations" wrote back that time asking for "proof" that this was still owing.
They ignored this and we played letter tennis to them and customer relations for several months, that is when I di a CCA and they paid it into the disputed account.
Along with this CCA was yet another poor copy of my original application form and a "reconstituted" copy of the terms and conditions, however this had the wrong name on it.
me being a generous person informed them of this, all I got back was "we gave looked into this and we are right as your address is right and the remaining balance is still due"
Another week later got another letter from Robinson Way, wrote back with "prove it"
Then i got yet another letter from Wescott again they have failed to come up with anything, and it is still on hold.
Back with the FOS and I have also raised a complaint with the ICO.
Its about a year since i paid anything for this .
You really could not make it up!

You've had a difficult time with these then?

So do you mean Cabot referred it back to the OC?
I have read on some posts that banks have purchased back the debt and sold it on again, it doesn't seem right though does it!

When you were originally told that the debt was sold on, was the letter like anything like the one I posted of my family friend's letter, as posted in my above post?

[labman]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

I think you'll find it was only an Equitable Assignment.

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

As it's only recently that I've had an interest on this, so am still researching.

The difference between Equitable Assignment.........

Equitable assignment

An assignment (www.practicallaw.com/A35863) which does not fulfil the statutory criteria for a legal assignment (www.practicallaw.com/A36342). An equitable assignment may be made in one of two ways:

• The assignor can inform the assignee that he transfers a right or rights to him.
  
• The assignor can instruct the other party or parties to the agreement to discharge their obligation to the assignee instead of the assignor.

Only the benefit of an agreement may be assigned. There is no requirement for written notice to be given or received. The only significant difference between a legal assignment and an equitable assignment is that an equitable assignee often cannot bring an action in its own name against the third party contractor, but must fall back on the rules governing equitable assignments and join the assignor as party to the action.


Assignment (absolute).

An assignment under which the contract holder transfers all ownership rights to the assignee and has no further rights under the contract. This is considered a "transfer or ownership." If a contract holder absolutely assigns a contract without receiving any payment in exchange, it is considered a gift. For example, parents who purchase a contract insuring their minor child often transfer ownership to the child when he/she reaches the age of majority. This is generally accomplished by means of an absolute assignment. By contrast, if financial compensation is received, the absolute assignment is considered to be sale of the contract. For example, a company that owns a contract insuring a key person may sell the contract to the employee in exchange for the contract’s cash value when the employee leaves the company. This sale/transfer of ownership is also accomplished by means of an absolute assignment.

[labman]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

In simple terms an Equitable Assignment is the assignment of the Equity in the debt, so it can be assigned to a DCA for collection, but the DCA cannot take any action off its own back, it must ALWAYS refer back to the OC. They can and do threaten, but they can't actually really do anything without going back to the OC.

An Assignment in Absolute, or Absolute Assignment is where the debt is sold in its entirety to a third party (the DCA). The DCA buys it for say 16p in the pound (so for every £1 owing they pay 16p), sometimes as low as 5p in the pound. They then purchase the rights, responsibilities and duties of the OC, so effectively they now become the OC - they can take any action the OC could have taken without referring back to them.

When the OC sells it via an Absolute Assignment, they offset it in their accounts, so it doesn't actually cost them anything.

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

I wonder if when a notification of assigment is sent to the debtor by the OC, which says we have sold all rights, title and interest to a DCA...and then admits several years later that in fact they have an agreement which allows them to buy back the account in full or in part from the DCA, is this just an outright mistruth then or is it designed to mislead the debtor ?

[dogtired]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

The first must have been an Equitable then, but back then I was ignorent ! The second no assignment to any of the three involved and I had learnt, on this site, how to challange them.I cannot understand how two cards with the same parent bank could be so different. Have decided not to pursue the BOSone, reluctently, as I feel that Cabot got back more than they deserve.Sainsbury still seem to think that they are right and I do have a thread lurking about this, last letter from Wescott was in Septemberish.:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

I have a sainsbury a/c from 2002,,do you have one fron the same period...?

[dogtired]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

I have a sainsbury a/c from 2002,,do you have one fron the same period...?

Roughly the same, will check tomorrow, keep all stuff now.

[labman]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

I wonder if when a notification of assigment is sent to the debtor by the OC, which says we have sold all rights, title and interest to a DCA...and then admits several years later that in fact they have an agreement which allows them to buy back the account in full or in part from the DCA, is this just an outright mistruth then or is it designed to mislead the debtor ?

It is not necessarily either. You need to think of a debt as a commodity which can be bought and sold. Think of it as a car, a could sell it to b; b to c; c to d; When d puts it up for sale, technically there is nothing stopping a buying it back again, even though they've owned it before. With a debt, they just need to hold the correct licenses, and go through the legal process of informing the debtor correctly.

Hope that makes sense.

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Deed of assignment
Re: what is a deed of assignment?
Absolute - the DCA owns ALL the rights and duties of the original creditor and can enforce the agreement through the courts in their own name.

Equitable - the DCA has the right to collect the debt, but needs to work with the Original Creditor if legal enforcement is required. Also they may need to refer to the Original Creditor over certain matters

No deed of assignment no legal standing!

[dogtired]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

I forgot to say that it looked like a recon of documents with the SDAR?
And that also during the course of it they got the accounts confused!

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

That would sound more 'unplanned', wheras the OC (sainsbury's) advised me the 'retained the right to buy back part of the account'....that sounds more like a pre agreement, which sort of contradicts the 'we have no interest amymore'..?

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

I am not sure if (family friend) have requested for his copies of CCA from the DCA, now that they confirm on the letter that under the terms of this assignment, and as defined in the Data Protection Act 1998, Cabot is now the Data Controller of the personal data contained in the records of this account. I think he should and see what they come back with.

I do know he is forwarding payments by standing order to Cabot now on a monthly basis, as the account was also confirmed sold as from 3rd Sept 2012, he has been paying every month to them since then.

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

does the fact that a DCA becomes the' data controller' confirm then that they assigment is absolute ?