Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

[WendyB]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Tbh Nellie, I think I'd write back to them pointing out that they have not answered the issues you raised in your letter, enclose a copy of it and highlight the relevant bits. Tell them that as they clearly put Lloyds TSB as the client you feel that they are duty bound to put this offer to Lloyds, in fact, try sending it to Lloyds yourself if they won't.

Just my opinion, see what everyone else thinks...

[Amy]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Post #4 is what you need to read if you want a definition of 'Full and Final settlements' Full and Final Settlement - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

[enaid]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Post #4 is what you need to read if you want a definition of 'Full and Final settlements' Full and Final Settlement - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

But it is they who offered a lesser figure and not nellie asking them to accept a lower figure, does that not make a difference?

[nelliewops]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Thanks everyone!

Wendy - will do as you suggest xxx

Amy & Enaid - that's very helpful xxx

Just a quick question if you don't mind -

Does a DCA have any legal right to ask you to fill out an I&E? I was under the assumption that only a court could request this..............

I realise that by doing so you are giving them a clearer picture of what you can/cannot afford, but feel it is none of their business - maybe I'm wrong though

Nellie x

[Amy]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

I realise that by doing so you are giving them a clearer picture of what you can/cannot afford, but feel it is none of their business - maybe I'm wrong though

Nellie x

I would agree with you there, I certainly wouldn't provide one.

[nelliewops]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

I would agree with you there, I certainly wouldn't provide one.

Thanks for reassuring me on that Amy xxx

[Godzilla]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

I was under the impression if a F&F was offered by a third party it is considered legally binding is this not true?
Also if they insist your credit file is marked 'Partial Settlement' and they put outstanding balance as nil that is ok too as there is then nothing to come back for?

Hello enaid

Yes, a third party cheque payment made out in Full and Final [is] legally binding upon the creditor who presents the said cheque for payment, BUT, only where 'consensus ad idem' can be proved, the translation of the latin is - 'agreeing to the [same] thing'.

So there must be a diologue of communications between the two parties that would show a 'meeting of the minds', the two parties had discussed a Settlement and it had been agreed by the creditor that the debtor can send in his Settlement offer along with the cheque payment enclosed.

Where there is discussion about a Settlement and the creditor states in writing that that he will accept £xyz in Full and Final Settlement of the account, but the debtor disputes the amount claimed as being the balance he owes (genuine dispute that is), the debtor (in these circumstances) can send in a counter offer to the creditors said offer and if it is stated that the debtor's counter offer is made 'without any admission of liability' and there is also a clause in the said counter offer that if the creditor does not accept the enclosed cheque payment under the terms it is tendered by then the said cheque is to be returned within 7 days, if the creditor should bank the enclosed cheque (third party cheque or not) then the Settlement Agreement will be complete in law and binding upon the creditor.

There are many, many different sets of circumstances that determine whether or not there has been an agreement between the two parties and that is why this area of law has been the subject of more than 400 yrs of serious debate thrashed out in the Courts by the two parties with their frustrations that have arisen out of their expectations to such agreements/contracts.

Keep the communications on-going with the creditor in writing only, if the creditor is willing to accept a compromise then that is great news, if he is not, then you must understand (I am sure you all do) a Settlement to the account/loan cannot be forced upon him.

I hope that will help a little bit, I have worked on many Settlement cases, each one completely different to the other, I have lost one case of this type, unfortunately for the debtor I was not involved when they just sent a third party cheque made out in Full and Final of their own accord.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[Godzilla]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hi everyone

Thanks to you all for your continued input on this thread!

A further update -

This morning Wescot have sent an I&E form to fill out before they are prepared to accept the monthly payment offered, although they have deducted the first payment made from the outstanding balance.

There is no attached letter nor any reference to my counter-offer in Full and Final.

Once again their correspondence is marked 'Client: Lloyds TSB'.

I am not happy to send them an I&E as whilst the one I have previously done (for my own benefit) clearly shows we cannot afford more than I have offered, I don't consider it any of their business and thought only a court could order this (also the form indicates that even if they were to accept, this payment plan would be reviewed in three months) and would still far rather prefer to settle this with a one-off F&F payment, but it seems that having opened negotiations themselves, they now have no wish to discuss/negotiate.

I'm wondering whether I should -

a) Go back with a slightly higher counter-offer - ie, meet in the middle - but having ignored my previous attempts to negotiate I don't feel confident they will consider this;

b) Just offer them what they originally asked for (30%), but as their original letter stated that their offer was for a limited time only (and yet didn't allow time for me to respond), they may now say I've missed my chance.

Trouble is with the other F&Fs I have to do, option (b) will leave me less money to play with for the rest................

Nellie x

Hello again Nellie

Yes, it would appear that their offer is no longer available, however, you could request that they repeat their offer because first time round they did not give you enough time to perform.

If you have made an offer already (even if its a counter offer) DO NOT REPEAT THE SAME OFFER!

How many creditors do you have, what does the sums owed to all add up to and what amount has been made available by your third party? (sorry about all that)

You could look at a composition agreement with your creditors, this is where you would pay your creditors on a pro-rata basis in Full and Final, each creditor would see how much you have available and who is getting what, in this type of Full and Final the rule of consideration does not apply and if one creditor accepted, then all others must accept too.

Lots of different ways to tackle the problem, it just might take a while longer than you first thought.

I hope that helps.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[Caspar]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Post #4 is what you need to read if you want a definition of 'Full and Final settlements' Full and Final Settlement - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

It's interesting (and pure chance) that the cases quoted by admin are the same ones quoted by me in my reply to Godzilla in this thread. I don't think it gives a definitive answer, just accentuates the need to be VERY careful when dealing with F and F.

[WendyB]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Maybe there isn't a definitive answer, each person's circumstances will be different so slightly different wording etc needed for each one depending on those circumstances.

FWIW Nellie, keep on paying the monthly payments and keep writing to them. As I said earlier, as they don't actually own the debt and are only acting on behalf of LTSB, would it be worth contacting LTSB direct, as the OC, and see if you could negotiate a F and F with them?

[Caspar]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

I'm with Wendy on this. I think you need to agree any F+F with Lloyds themselves, not their representative. There are many cases (I'm sure Godzilla could quote a lot of them!) where third parties have accepted F+F only for the original creditor to pursue the remainder of the balance.

If you do agree F+F it needs to be watertight, in writing and with Lloyds!

[nelliewops]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hello again Nellie

Yes, it would appear that their offer is no longer available, however, you could request that they repeat their offer because first time round they did not give you enough time to perform.

If you have made an offer already (even if its a counter offer) DO NOT REPEAT THE SAME OFFER!

How many creditors do you have, what does the sums owed to all add up to and what amount has been made available by your third party? (sorry about all that)

You could look at a composition agreement with your creditors, this is where you would pay your creditors on a pro-rata basis in Full and Final, each creditor would see how much you have available and who is getting what, in this type of Full and Final the rule of consideration does not apply and if one creditor accepted, then all others must accept too.

Lots of different ways to tackle the problem, it just might take a while longer than you first thought.

I hope that helps.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

Hi Godzilla,

Thanks for your continued input.

I've just worked out a pro-rata or composition method based upon the lump sum available/amounts owed and the pro-rata settlement in respect of this account actually works out to about £60 more than they originally offered themselves.

Likewise I have today had a counter-offer from a DCA who definitely owns a former MBNA account. They have counter-offered £1000 against my 10% (approx £400) and were I to utilise the pro-rata method I would be offering them approx £150 more than they have said they are prepared to accept.

Nellie x

[Godzilla]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hi Godzilla,

Thanks for your continued input.

I've just worked out a pro-rata or composition method based upon the lump sum available/amounts owed and the pro-rata settlement in respect of this account actually works out to about £60 more than they originally offered themselves.

Likewise I have today had a counter-offer from a DCA who definitely owns a former MBNA account. They have counter-offered £1000 against my 10% (approx £400) and were I to utilise the pro-rata method I would be offering them approx £150 more than they have said they are prepared to accept.

Nellie x

Well Nellie

If the offer from that DCA is acceptable and you are satisfied with their wording in their offer then, you could accept and put the £150 towards the composition proposals.

Have they also put a time limit for you to respond to the said offer?

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[nelliewops]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Well Nellie

If the offer from that DCA is acceptable and you are satisfied with their wording in their offer then, you could accept and put the £150 towards the composition proposals.

Have they also put a time limit for you to respond to the said offer?

Kind Regards

Godzilla

Gosh, I'm a dozy thing today............I thought my calculations looked wrong somehow. I've just been through them again and realised I had added up the owed amounts incorrectly

So, I'll start again!

Based upon my available lump sum, the pro-rata payments would be -

Wescot/LTSB - £2218.30 (their offer was £2850 and I counter-offered £2250)

MBNA account 1 (owned by DCA) - £873.18 (their counter offer to mine of approx £400 was £1000)

LTSB account 2 - £1478.13 (negotiations yet to commence)

MBNA account 2 (owned by DCA) - £1478.13 (I have offered £600 approx)

Apologies for my previous errors - no wonder I slipped from the top maths set to the third at school!
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[WendyB]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Yes well the pro-rata ing is all very well but just bear in mind that you want to negotiate the best deal for you, not them. The lower the better. If there is any left over from each offer after negotiations then keep it for yourself for the time being, don't offer more to another one unless you have to.