Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

**Pinky69** · 25th August 2010, 22:01:PM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

I would send SARs to Lloyds for both loans - it's amazing what you can discover. I only found out by sending SARs on a couple of loans that they had in fact been charged off and sold to the DCAs, even though the DCAs kept referring to the creditor as if they were acting on the creditor's behalf, which they weren't. I found so many mistakes in the statements that that was the end of any payments for me and I sent the DCAs packing. As for Full and Final settlements, the important thing to emphasise is why your financial situation is bad and why it it is never going to improve. That will focus the DCAs on settlement rather than pushing to see how much they can get. I offered a bank 20%, it was accepted without any problem and remember the DCAs buy these debts for much less.

**nelliewops** · 26th August 2010, 09:18:AM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Originally posted by Pinky69 View Post

I would send SARs to Lloyds for both loans - it's amazing what you can discover. I only found out by sending SARs on a couple of loans that they had in fact been charged off and sold to the DCAs, even though the DCAs kept referring to the creditor as if they were acting on the creditor's behalf, which they weren't. I found so many mistakes in the statements that that was the end of any payments for me and I sent the DCAs packing. As for Full and Final settlements, the important thing to emphasise is why your financial situation is bad and why it it is never going to improve. That will focus the DCAs on settlement rather than pushing to see how much they can get. I offered a bank 20%, it was accepted without any problem and remember the DCAs buy these debts for much less.

Hi Pinky,

Thanks for your advice - I hadn't realised you could specifically send a SAR for a loan - worth the £10 each to establish exactly what is going on I reckon!

Will get onto that and let you know how I get on...........

Nellie x

**nelliewops** · 1st September 2010, 10:14:AM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hi everyone!

Further to Pinky's excellent advice re: sending a SAR for each of the two loans - can anyone advise please whether I should be sending these to the usual LTSB SAR address (Andover) or elsewhere as it will relate to loans only not general account stuff?

Many thanks in advance

Nellie x

**nelliewops** · 14th September 2010, 12:12:PM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hi folks!

Did as Pinky suggested and sent SARs for both loans - LTSB have acknowledged receipt of requests today. Something which may be an early indicator of the status of these loans is the wording of LTSB's acknowledgment letters. One says they will send the SAR info to our address, whilst the other states that as there are no open accounts held by this person (me) the SAR info will have to be collected from a branch of my choice.

Now as the loan account concerned is still open (albeit in default), either this is an error on Lloyds' part (which wouldn't surprise me at all!) or else it is implying that as far as they are concerned the account is closed - ie, they have sold it on.............this makes sense as it is that particular account for which nothing has been heard for many months and when I contacted LTSB regarding it previously they ignored my letters :tinysmile_aha_t:

Whilst on the subject - on the second loan account (held by OH) a discounted settlement offer of 30% of balance has been received - ie, a 70% reduction in what is owing - sounds almost too good to be true and am quite tempted to accept..............or could there be something fishy going on?

What do you think guys?

Nellie x

**nelliewops** · 24th September 2010, 09:24:AM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Well, the plot thickens..............after two months of hearing nothing from LTSB they have finally acknowledged my letter by saying the account is still in the hands of their appointed agent - the same one I've received no communication from since December 2009

I'm going to do nothing further with this one now till the SAR is received so that I have cast-iron proof whether LTSB still own the account or not.............then I can decide how next to proceed.

**F_DCAs** · 1st October 2010, 10:05:AM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

I wouldn't trust Royds TSB as far as I could throw them. But yes, do nothing until/if you receive anything else from them.

**nelliewops** · 2nd November 2010, 12:31:PM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Okay - I could do with some advice/help with this please guys.............

Regarding OH's account, he received a 70% discount offer on the outstanding balance. As we were unable to afford this at the time we responded with a counter offer to pay 25% of the outstanding balance via a third party with all the conditions as recommended. This was completely ignored and a follow-up letter only provoked a 'we're looking into your concerns' type reply.

After approximately 6 weeks had passed since they contacted OH with their 'offer', they had not come back with anything remotely resembling an acknowledgment of our response to their original letter, so we wrote informing them that as they were obviously not prepared to accept the amount we could afford, we would have to utilise the money to repay another creditor. Instead we offered them a token monthly payment, the first of which was remitted with the letter. That was received/signed for nearly 2 weeks ago and has also not been acknowledged.

Do you think that this signifies that LTSB/Wescot are not interested in a F&F (despite it being they who originally mooted the idea)?

Should I just carry on paying the token monthly amount and assume that F&F negotiations are over (before they really started)?

Is it likely they will now decide to take OH to court?

Is there any way I could get them interested in a F&F as I really wanted to get this over and done with and whilst I still cannot afford the amount they originally asked for I am frustrated that they won't even enter into written correspondence regarding this matter :tinysmile_cry_t:

Any suggestions would be hugely appreciated!

Thanks guys

Nellie x

**Caspar** · 2nd November 2010, 12:48:PM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Originally posted by nelliewops View Post

Okay - I could do with some advice/help with this please guys.............

Regarding OH's account, he received a 70% discount offer on the outstanding balance. As we were unable to afford this at the time we responded with a counter offer to pay 25% of the outstanding balance via a third party with all the conditions as recommended. This was completely ignored and a follow-up letter only provoked a 'we're looking into your concerns' type reply.

After approximately 6 weeks had passed since they contacted OH with their 'offer', they had not come back with anything remotely resembling an acknowledgment of our response to their original letter, so we wrote informing them that as they were obviously not prepared to accept the amount we could afford, we would have to utilise the money to repay another creditor. Instead we offered them a token monthly payment, the first of which was remitted with the letter. That was received/signed for nearly 2 weeks ago and has also not been acknowledged.

Do you think that this signifies that LTSB/Wescot are not interested in a F&F (despite it being they who originally mooted the idea)?

Should I just carry on paying the token monthly amount and assume that F&F negotiations are over (before they really started)?

Is it likely they will now decide to take OH to court?

Is there any way I could get them interested in a F&F as I really wanted to get this over and done with and whilst I still cannot afford the amount they originally asked for I am frustrated that they won't even enter into written correspondence regarding this matter :tinysmile_cry_t:

Any suggestions would be hugely appreciated!

Thanks guys

Nellie x

Hiya Nellie,
Sorry to her your state of affairs - you're not alone. Don't know whether you've sent the SAR, if so no problem, but if not and you only want to find out who owns the loan get a free copy of your credit report online (I did a month ago and it was a real eye opener. A debt of £15000 to Egg is settled, but has gone to someone else who has not yet approached me).

I would suggest a slightly different tack to the people above. At the top of every page is a link to I/E sheets (Income/Expenditure sheets). I'd suggest you fill in one of these, post it on here for scrutiny (mine changed three times through posting it on here!), then depending on what that states we'd take it from there in terms of what is the best way forward. It would be a letter of some sort enclosing your IE sheet most likely, but till the sheet is done it's impossible to say for sure.

Doesn't take long and useful to do, so why not fill one in and post it up here for us to look at?

David

**nelliewops** · 2nd November 2010, 13:50:PM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Originally posted by Caspar View Post

Hiya Nellie,
Sorry to her your state of affairs - you're not alone. Don't know whether you've sent the SAR, if so no problem, but if not and you only want to find out who owns the loan get a free copy of your credit report online (I did a month ago and it was a real eye opener. A debt of £15000 to Egg is settled, but has gone to someone else who has not yet approached me).

I would suggest a slightly different tack to the people above. At the top of every page is a link to I/E sheets (Income/Expenditure sheets). I'd suggest you fill in one of these, post it on here for scrutiny (mine changed three times through posting it on here!), then depending on what that states we'd take it from there in terms of what is the best way forward. It would be a letter of some sort enclosing your IE sheet most likely, but till the sheet is done it's impossible to say for sure.

Doesn't take long and useful to do, so why not fill one in and post it up here for us to look at?

David

Hi David,

Thanks for your reply. I did do an I&E over on MSE a while back and based upon that I have sent Wescot the maximum monthly payment we can afford (£5.00). The thing is I really don't want to have this hanging over our heads forever and as we now have our PPI refund from Norton I want to settle it for good with a F&F.

The ridiculous thing is that it was they who first approached OH regarding a F&F - yet when we responded they completely ignored all our attempts to negotiate.

I have sent four letters to them via recorded delivery since their original offer letter and the only response received is a standard generic 'thanks for your complaint' type, making no reference to F&Fs whatsoever!

Yes, I did do the SAR and on this account it shows that it is still owned by LTSB.

Nellie x

**Caspar** · 2nd November 2010, 13:56:PM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Originally posted by nelliewops View Post

I have sent four letters to them via recorded delivery

Don't bother with Recorded Delivery. Only way to get guaranteed delivery is Special Delivery, otherwise just send first class, ask for proof of postage and save yourself a few pence.

I only discovered this two weeks ago as we have a very honest postmaster at our local PO!

**Caspar** · 2nd November 2010, 14:05:PM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

I know you've said you already sent 4 letters. This is the template one from this site if t's any use. Just off to try to find something out for you!

LETTER # 3

Full and Final Settlement for Any Debt

Dear Sir/Mr

Re: Your Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We write with reference to the above mentioned account number.

We confirm that we are unable to offer the full amount repayable, we are, however, able to raise a total of £................. and wish to offer this as an ex-gratia payment in full and final settlement of the above account.

This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you nor any associated company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that we will be released from any liability.

We also request that, if accepted, you inform the relevant credit reference agency and mark our file relating to the above account as "satisfied”.

Payment can be made within 2 weeks of receiving your written acceptance of these proposals.

We look forward to receiving your reply.

Yours faithfully/sincerely
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Don't know whether this will help. They may be able to gove you a way forward.

http://www.bdl.org.uk/images/24_full...ent_offers.pdf

David
xx

**Godzilla** · 2nd November 2010, 15:04:PM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hello nelliwops

Did your OH receive the Full and Final offer in writing from the creditor (DCA)?

I do not know your full personal circumstances that caused your financial difficulties, however, if your personal circumstances are long term then that can assist you in achieving an agreed Settlement to your accounts.

Do you know if there is anything that you can dispute on the account (I know you have had the PPI refunded), but do you agree that the amount they claim you owe is correct?

No offence to Casper, but that Full and Final template letter is just not good enough, I know the said template has been used by many others and their accounts have been Settled, but if the creditor does not want to play fair, he can take any payment sent with that said letter (even if the cheque is marked as Full and Final) present the payment, reject the terms and then still maintain his legal right to sue the debtor for the balance that remains.

Again, no offence Casper, or to anyone for that matter, that said F+F offer letter does not constitute a legally binding agreement/contract upon the creditor.

For those that have an understanding of the area of law known as 'Full and Final Settlements', the reasons why that said letter offer does not constitute a legally binding contract should be obvious.

Nelliwops, did you receive your DSAR file yet?

Have a very good think about the amounts your creditors claim you owe and see if you can find any discrepencies with those figures.

Please up date, when you can, my advice (you do not need to act on it) is DO NOT SEND IN THE SAID LETTER AND CERTAINLY DO NOT SEND IT IN WITH A CHEQUE PAYMENT ATTACHED!

Kind Regards

Godzilla

**Amethyst** · 2nd November 2010, 15:06:PM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Do you have a recommendation for a F&F letter that would be legally binding godzilla ?

**Caspar** · 2nd November 2010, 15:28:PM

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hi Godzilla (and I believe Welcome Back!). There is a VERY brief outline of MY understanding of full and final settlement at the bottom of this post. Meanwhile I take no offence whatsoever, but would suggest on this forum you word your responses more tactfully as the less vulnerable could be put off coming here for help.

No offence to Casper, but that Full and Final template letter is just not good enough, I know the said template has been used by many others and their accounts have been Settled. A contradiction - it's not good enough but has worked for many people??????

Again, no offence Casper, or to anyone for that matter, that said F+F offer letter does not constitute a legally binding agreement/contract upon the creditor. Totally agree - see below!

For those that have an understanding of the area of law known as 'Full and Final Settlements',(of whom I believe I'm one) the reasons why that said letter offer does not constitute a legally binding contract should be obvious.

Godzilla, as always I''m very grateful for any comments / criticisms as I know I'm on a learning curve (as we all are here). Perhaps you'd be kind enough to draught a better letter that would be legally binding. If you can't do this, then one that has worked for many is surely better than none?

Kind Regards

Godzilla

When a cheque is sent in 'full and final settlement' in a situation where the actual amount claimed is in dispute, it is in the interests of both sides to compromise their respective positions or, in legal parlance, achieve accord and satisfaction.
An example is Stour Valley Builders v Stuart (1992). Stour Valley Builders carried out work for Mr & Mrs Stuart. The builders sent a revised account of £10,163 after the Stuarts had disputed some of the items. Eventually the Stuarts sent a cheque for £8,471 in 'full and final settlement'. Two days after the cheque had been cleared the builders informed the Stuarts that the cheque was not accepted in full and final settlement. The builders sued to recover the outstanding balance.
It was argued in the Court of Appeal that the court should adopt the American rule that the banking of a cheque in these circumstances amounted to an acceptance that it was tendered in 'full and final settlement'. The Court refused to go along with this. Instead, it relied upon the Victorian case of Day v McLea: whether there is an agreement to accept a cheque in full and final settlement is dependent upon the creditor's conduct.
Did the creditor cause the debtor to believe that the money was taken in full satisfaction? In this case the builders had made clear, shortly after the cheque had been cleared, that it was not accepted in 'full and final settlement'. The outcome would have been different if there had been significant delay in informing the debtor. Therefore A must inform B, either at the time the cheque is presented (or shortly thereafter) that he does not accept it in 'full and final settlement'. If he fails to do this he will be regarded as having accepted the amount stated on the cheque.
Summary:
The circumstances in which you will be bound by a cheque made out in 'full and final settlement' are as follows:

The cheque is offered in circumstances where there is a dispute about the amount owed.
The offer in 'full and final settlement' of the dispute is made at the time the cheque is presented.
You present the cheque in payment and it is duly honoured.
At the time of presenting the cheque or within a short time thereafter you fail to inform the payer that the cheque is not accepted in 'full and final settlement'Number 4 in the above list is critical.

Otherwise, as the Court of Appeal explained in another case, Ferguson v Davis; '...paying in and clearance of the cheque [is] a clear and unequivocal acceptance...'
Furthermore, if you bank a cheque from a third party (as in the Bracken case) in "full and final settlement' of a sum (whether or not disputed) owed by your debtor you will have signified acceptance of it as discharge of the debt.

Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

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