Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

[The Debt Star]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

easy on the red Casp!

[Caspar]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

easy on the red Casp!

Only did it to differentiate me from A.N.Other. I thought it added a bit of colour! lol

[The Debt Star]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

it certainly is colorful is that! might get a colourful response lol

[nelliewops]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hello nelliwops

Did your OH receive the Full and Final offer in writing from the creditor (DCA)?

I do not know your full personal circumstances that caused your financial difficulties, however, if your personal circumstances are long term then that can assist you in achieving an agreed Settlement to your accounts.

Do you know if there is anything that you can dispute on the account (I know you have had the PPI refunded), but do you agree that the amount they claim you owe is correct?

No offence to Casper, but that Full and Final template letter is just not good enough, I know the said template has been used by many others and their accounts have been Settled, but if the creditor does not want to play fair, he can take any payment sent with that said letter (even if the cheque is marked as Full and Final) present the payment, reject the terms and then still maintain his legal right to sue the debtor for the balance that remains.

Again, no offence Casper, or to anyone for that matter, that said F+F offer letter does not constitute a legally binding agreement/contract upon the creditor.

For those that have an understanding of the area of law known as 'Full and Final Settlements', the reasons why that said letter offer does not constitute a legally binding contract should be obvious.

Nelliwops, did you receive your DSAR file yet?

Have a very good think about the amounts your creditors claim you owe and see if you can find any discrepencies with those figures.

Please up date, when you can, my advice (you do not need to act on it) is DO NOT SEND IN THE SAID LETTER AND CERTAINLY DO NOT SEND IT IN WITH A CHEQUE PAYMENT ATTACHED!

Kind Regards

Godzilla

Hi Godzilla

Thanks for your assistance - it's greatly appreciated!

The offer was received in writing from Nelson Guest who I believe are the inhouse sols of Wescot (?). The letter reads as follows -

'Important: an offer to reduce the amount payable on your debt


We are instructed by Wescot Credit Services Ltd (Wescot) acting on behalf of Lloyds TSB Plc regarding the above outstanding balance. As a final attempt to avoid further action, Wescot is prepared to offer you a 70% discount to settle your account.

This offer is only available for a limited period.'

Trouble was their letter (dated 2nd September) didn't arrive till the 10th (a Friday) and only gave till the 12th (the Sunday) to agree to the offer.

Having written asking for a reasonable extra few days to consider, then going back with a slightly lower counter offer, this was completely ignored.

Due to OH's problems with depression etc our financial situation is unlikely to improve for the foreseeable future and £9000+ spread out over £5 per month instalments will take a fair few years to clear!

As you say I have reclaimed the PPI and LTSB chose to refund it as a cheque rather than off the balance. I did think that maybe they had sold the account on, but looking at the recent SAR, this doesn't appear to be the case.

I think therefore that the balance quoted is probably right, although considering four years worth of payments at £200 + per time were made without problems it's amazing that due to the interest/PPI OH has only repaid about £900 off the original amount borrowed :tinysmile_cry_t:

Don't worry I would not under any circumstances send a cheque to them till they had agreed in writing to all conditions. The letter I used was found on MSE - as recommended by National Debtline, I believe. It included the following -

'This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you nor any associate company will take any action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that I will be released from any liability.

I also request that, if accepted, you will make an entry on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account as having been paid and the account closed.'


Are you saying therefore that this wording is not sufficient?

Do you have an alternative you can recommend please?

I will go back and check again that the amount they are quoting as the balance is correct - I do know that for the last 18 months plus no further interest has been added, although prior to that there were a few bounced payments where interest was still applied although the payment didn't go through.

Caspar - thank you for your advice - I appreciate the fact that it was well intentioned and to be honest there is so much info out there that sometimes it is hard to know which is the correct way to these things - we are all on a very steep learning curve!

Thanks again for all your help guys

Nellie x

[nelliewops]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Don't bother with Recorded Delivery. Only way to get guaranteed delivery is Special Delivery, otherwise just send first class, ask for proof of postage and save yourself a few pence.

I only discovered this two weeks ago as we have a very honest postmaster at our local PO!

Thanks Caspar - It's a bit late now, as over the course of the last 18 months or so that I've been dealing with our accounts I have sent in excess of 250 letters via Recorded Delivery :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

Mind you that lot would have been pretty expensive if all sent via Next Day Special Delivery...........250 x £5.05 = £1250+

It's ok if you've only got to send a handful, but not that many!

I had discovered myself that recorded was probably not worth it (especially as quite a few have never shown as having been delivered on Track and Trace) but as I say, it's a bit late now!

I realise I made an error in my above posts - I've just checked my file and the letters regarding F&F to Wescot/Nelson Guest were actually sent Next Day Special as were some of the other more important ones I've written.

Nellie x

[Crispybacon]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hi Nellie

I appreciate you are anxious to get this sorted, but I think this is all part of the 'game' and 'dance' that we encounter when dealing with debt collection agencies.

Having a read through your post its still unclear whether from your SAR's that LTSB have now sold on the debts or not?

I think this is crucial in terms of getting the F&F offer you want, although I have to admit to being deeply suspicious that they have actually been sold for a DCA to be offering you 70% discount.

I would be very cautious that they are looking to do what Godzilla has suggested, which is they get a chunk of money from you, and then sell the remainder of the debt on where you will then be hassled by another DCA.

However, back to my original point, which is the little DCA dance routine. I think its a deliberate stand off technique designed to make you anxious. Its a standard contract negotiation tactic to see 'who blinks first'.

If you want to call their bluff, write to them saying that your family member has withdrawn their offer but should they wish to accept your offer in the future you would be happy to hear from them in the event something could be arranged (or words to that effect).

All the best and good luck

Crispy

[nelliewops]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hi Nellie

I appreciate you are anxious to get this sorted, but I think this is all part of the 'game' and 'dance' that we encounter when dealing with debt collection agencies.

Having a read through your post its still unclear whether from your SAR's that LTSB have now sold on the debts or not?

I think this is crucial in terms of getting the F&F offer you want, although I have to admit to being deeply suspicious that they have actually been sold for a DCA to be offering you 70% discount.

I would be very cautious that they are looking to do what Godzilla has suggested, which is they get a chunk of money from you, and then sell the remainder of the debt on where you will then be hassled by another DCA.

However, back to my original point, which is the little DCA dance routine. I think its a deliberate stand off technique designed to make you anxious. Its a standard contract negotiation tactic to see 'who blinks first'.

If you want to call their bluff, write to them saying that your family member has withdrawn their offer but should they wish to accept your offer in the future you would be happy to hear from them in the event something could be arranged (or words to that effect).

All the best and good luck

Crispy

Hi Crispy

Thanks for your advice - it definitely seems rather suspicious that the DCA has offered such a massive discount. Methinks I'm going to have to go back through the SAR with a fine tooth comb to try to establish for once and for all whether LTSB have indeed sold it on.

I was under the assumption that they hadn't sold it, as curiously in the case of my own SAR I received a letter from Lloyds saying as I held no open accounts with them they couldn't send me my info and that instead I would have to collect from a branch, whereas in OH's case they sent his SAR here................

In my last (of 4 on this subject) letter to the DCA I did say that as they didn't seem prepared to accept I would have to utilise the money offered by a family member to repay another creditor - but once again they have chosen not to respond

Will do some further SAR searching and return!

Thanks again,

Nellie x

[Bill-K]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Again, no offence Casper, or to anyone for that matter, that said F+F offer letter does not constitute a legally binding agreement/contract upon the creditor.

For those that have an understanding of the area of law known as 'Full and Final Settlements', the reasons why that said letter offer does not constitute a legally binding contract should be obvious.

Hi Godzilla - I used to have King Kong as my avatar - LOL !!!

I do maths mainly, and keep out of the legalities if I can, so I'm one of many here who don't have an understanding of the F&F legalities. I concentrate mostly on getting claim figures right, so having some idea of this area would be useful. Please would you be able to explain what we would have to do in order to make that offer of a F&F settlement a legally-binding agreement ?

It really would be appreciated.

Cheers, fellow big guy !!!

[nelliewops]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hi Godzilla - yes, as Bill says if you could point me (and anyone else that's interested!) in the direction of the correct wording for a legally binding F&F settlement offer that would be wonderful..............many thanks!

Nellie x

[Godzilla]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Good evening nellie and everyone who has posted on this story.

Yes of course I shall point you in the right direction of a legally binding Settlement offer letter.

As one of the other posters have stated, you know, a song and dance routine, some Settlements can be achieved quite quickly and sometimes the discussion/negotiation can go on for months between the two parties (or 3 parties), it all depends on the debtor's circumstances and the creditor's attitude/conduct of course.

On the CAG site in the Debt Management and Debt Self help forum under the title 'Full and Final Settlement help needed to clear asap' posted by 'horsemad1', that is where you will find the script to put into your Settlement Offers, with the cheque payment enclosed.

You must bear in mind though, each case of this type is different, the said letter mentioned above must not be sent into your creditors blindly, of your own accord, there must be a dialogue of communications evident between the two parties showing of discussion regarding a Full and Final, a genuine dispute about the account balance being claimed by the creditor will assist the debtor greatly.

I did write a guide on Full and Final on the CAG Site and also assisted a few members with their Settlements, there is an incredible amount of case law on this particular subject, more than 400 yrs of it, it is a very complex area of law, there can be serious disputes arising out of the frustrated expectations of both parties to a Settlement Agreement.

It is a contract between two parties, it is not a one way street and that is why I stated that the letter posted up by Casper simply will not create a legally binding agreement upon the creditor, without Casper or anyone else taking offence, that said letter offer is broad, wide and open to interpretation and it is a contract that is being forced upon the creditor.

Please don't get me wrong, I really do not like any creditor/bank/dca, I simply would just not like to see or hear of someone in nellie's position having the conduct of deceit played upon her/him by some nasty creditor/bank/dca.

Well, I do hope that helps a little bit and in time maybe I will post up a Full and Final guide hear on Legal Beagles, if that was an acceptable post to write and post up.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[Caspar]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

The problem is not so much the case law dating back for ever, but the fact that the judges can't seem to make consistent decisions based on all this case law. Some quote recent stuff, others stuff going back ages. It causes massive confusion and makes it difficult to create a binding agreement.

I have a massive interest in Common Law and often this works better in these circumstances, but thatis not something that could be covered in one post, nor even probably 100 posts. It needs a vast amount of reading.

[Bill-K]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Much obliged Godzilla. I'm banned from CAG (as is a large percentage of the UK populace, it would seem) - so I may not be able to see your work in there. I'm sure others will be able to see it - and report back here, though.

Looks like another learning curve ahead, then. Buckle up, guys !!!

Cheers, mate.

[enaid]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

I was under the impression if a F&F was offered by a third party it is considered legally binding is this not true?
Also if they insist your credit file is marked 'Partial Settlement' and they put outstanding balance as nil that is ok too as there is then nothing to come back for?

[nelliewops]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

Hi everyone

Thanks to you all for your continued input on this thread!

A further update -

This morning Wescot have sent an I&E form to fill out before they are prepared to accept the monthly payment offered, although they have deducted the first payment made from the outstanding balance.

There is no attached letter nor any reference to my counter-offer in Full and Final.

Once again their correspondence is marked 'Client: Lloyds TSB'.

I am not happy to send them an I&E as whilst the one I have previously done (for my own benefit) clearly shows we cannot afford more than I have offered, I don't consider it any of their business and thought only a court could order this (also the form indicates that even if they were to accept, this payment plan would be reviewed in three months) and would still far rather prefer to settle this with a one-off F&F payment, but it seems that having opened negotiations themselves, they now have no wish to discuss/negotiate.

I'm wondering whether I should -

a) Go back with a slightly higher counter-offer - ie, meet in the middle - but having ignored my previous attempts to negotiate I don't feel confident they will consider this;

b) Just offer them what they originally asked for (30%), but as their original letter stated that their offer was for a limited time only (and yet didn't allow time for me to respond), they may now say I've missed my chance.

Trouble is with the other F&Fs I have to do, option (b) will leave me less money to play with for the rest................

Nellie x

[The Debt Star]

Re: Settling LTSB loans with DCAs

I'm banned from CAG .

whoa! They banned YOU, Bill? The gentle giant! The help you've given me has been invaluable. Their loss.