Birdie v Capital One

[Birdie]

Hello

I would be grateful if anyone has any thoughts on the attachments to this. Please bear in mind the following - I sent separate letters to Capital One a week ago recorded delivery - ie SAR, CCA, Dispute and No more calls.

I've attached their response along with a lovely leaflet that they also sent me.

Basically, the letter has completely thrown me (not that it takes much). They've ended their letter by saying "if I don't hear from you within four weeks, I'll consider this matter closed". Any ideas how I proceed from here please?

Many thanks.

hlg43

[Amethyst]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

Well - the OFT has said they won't take action on companies charging under £12 for credit card defaults. HOWEVER, this has not been proven in court to be a fair charge, and until they disclose their true costs and show evidence of the TRUE figure then the entire lot is unenforceable and thus reclaimable.

Its similar to people who reclaim their £25 odd charges back being offered the difference between £25 and £12, they don't accept because £12 is not a fair charge and is still a disporoportinate penalty...in the eyes of the law, if not the OFT.

I would write back again explaining that to them and express your intention to proceed with court action with interest added unless the refund you the sums or prove their true costs.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

We are not proposing that default fees should be equivalent to the threshold, and a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the threshold.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...cts/oft842.pdf

hlg43

The above is a quote from the actual report undertaken by the OFT.

So just because they set charges at £12 to avoid OFT action this is as Ame has pointed out not to say the fees are still proportionate to their losses.

[Birdie]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

Thanks.

As per their letter - see attachment, they've put "to avoid more default sums, you need to make sure we receive your monthly payments on time........... While you're disputing these default sums, it is important that you maintain payments as your account balance consists of transactions that you have made."

Should I pay anything at this point? We've got debts coming out of our ears, so not sure what to do here (with loads of defaults).

Also, we've not received any response or acknowledgment to our SAR or CCA letters.

Thanks.

hlg43

[TANZARELLI]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

Thanks.

As per their letter - see attachment, they've put "to avoid more default sums, you need to make sure we receive your monthly payments on time........... While you're disputing these default sums, it is important that you maintain payments as your account balance consists of transactions that you have made."

Should I pay anything at this point? We've got debts coming out of our ears, so not sure what to do here (with loads of defaults).

Also, we've not received any response or acknowledgment to our SAR or CCA letters.

Thanks.

hlg43

Chances are you wont get a copy agreement out of Cap One (I and others never did). Whats the date you sent the SAR has the timelimit expired on this?

If the CCA request timescale has passed ie 12 days and they have also had 30 days on top of this they have failed to comply with the CCA and therefore you are entitled to withhold payments until they can provide a true copy of the agreement.

[Birdie]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

Thanks. I sent them recorded delivery on 14th August and they received them on the 15th.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

As you prob already know they have 40 days to comply with a SAR and 12 days for CCA request.

[Birdie]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

So... I sent them the no more telephone calls request letter, this is their response -

"I understand you're unhappy with the calls you have received from us.

Our collections department has been calling the number you provided as a contact
because you are currently behind with your payments.

We have an obligation to inform you about the status of your account. Our collections team has been trying to speak to you to see why you have failed to bring your account up to date and to see if we can help in some way.

We use an automatic telephone system that continues to call you until we've reached an agreement or your account is up to date. We do not find it unreasonable to do this and the calls will continue until one of these conditions is met".

Ah bless their cotton socks, think I'll forward this letter on to the OFT!!!!

[Birdie]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

I would be really grateful if someone could please take a look at the attachments that I have posted up. There are two more to follow which Crap One claim is some sort of agreement

[Birdie]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

Here are the other two attachments.

Many thanks for any advice.

HLG43

[Curlyben]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

Hmmm ok.
Well the "agreement" would make a good paper aeroplane, but as a credit agreement it is unenforceablily floored.
As ever there are ZERO prescribed terms and as it is a pre May 2005 agreement they MUST be within the signature document, seperate T&C's are UNacceptable.

As for the supplied T&C's they are the current ones and have nothing to do with this account, so again another strike.

All in all it's your call, charges OR unenforceability, NOT both !!

[Budgie]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

Hi hlg

The terms and conditions, including all the prescribed terms, would have been on the reverse side of the application form.
The copy of the front side they have sent you is probably taken from a scanned version.

I agree with what Curly is saying regarding the unenforcability aspect of what they have sent you but I know from past experience that they will send you the actual terms and conditions that were in place at the time you opened your account if you keep on at them.

However, all in all its a pretty pointless exercise. The only thing that they understand or are concerned about is court action against them.

I would suggest waiting for their response to your SAR request. Capital One are normally reasonable quick to supply the SAR information. Let's wait and see what you are able to claim back from them in the way of charges and interest they have applied in respect of those charges etc. We can review things at that stage and then advise you as to the best way forward.

It looks like your current balance is around £700. The SAR response will actually detail all of the charges, but in the meantime do you have any idea of the likely total of charges that they may have applied to your account since it was opened?

Budgie

[Birdie]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

Hi Budgie & Curly

Thanks for your replies


I'll have a look back through on the statements that I do have and come up with an approximation.

hlg43

[Birdie]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

Hi.

Update on this card and I would appreciate some advice here.

Backwards and forwards from Debitas. I used CB's draft letters. Debitas at one stage handed it over to "power2contact", but I ignored them

It has now been passed back to Capital One who advise that they are "currently dealing with my account".

How do I proceed from here please?

Balance according to them is £710.07, which has increased £12 since the last statement I received in August of £698.07.

I'm sick of their unreasonableness and am willing to fight for reasonableness.

Birdie
x

[Budgie]

Re: hlg43 v Capital One

Have Capital One responded to your SAR?

You need to get your claim moving against them for repayment of your charges plus interest.

Budgie