Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Using the same argument as HHJ Roderick Denyer QC, would it not be permissable to claim that the creditor suffered no prejudice by being paid late, and that therefore all late payment charges should be refunded?

Or that no prejudice is suffered by the lender if the arrears are paid in 2 months not 2 weeks, so that the agreement should continue and his action to claim all amounts cease?

In both cases the lender would receive interest as per T&Cs and lose no money and precisely the same argument is used for the debtor as for the creditor.

Presumably a judge that disagreed with this would be guilty of bias towards the lender?

Just a thought...

LA

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

When I received my DN I did contact HSBC AGAIN WITH ANOTHER OFFER.

Maybe they thought I was offering them money in francs and that is why they kept refusing. I must go and check what I wrote!
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Using the same argument as HHJ Roderick Denyer QC, would it not be permissable to claim that the creditor suffered no prejudice by being paid late, and that therefore all late payment charges should be refunded?

Or that no prejudice is suffered by the lender if the arrears are paid in 2 months not 2 weeks, so that the agreement should continue and his action to claim all amounts cease?

In both cases the lender would receive interest as per T&Cs and lose no money and precisely the same argument is used for the debtor as for the creditor.

Presumably a judge that disagreed with this would be guilty of bias towards the lender?

Just a thought...

LA

And what a lovely thought that is LA.
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The hearing for SJ was just three (3) days away, I went through some of the documents to the case that my friend had sent me and in that bundle was a particular document that my friend had not realized the importance of.

I very quickly provided my friend with powerful legal argument based on this one particular document and also furnished him with the relevant CPR to use in order to submit the document in as evidence to substantiate his defence.


Sounds like an episode of Dick Tracy anyone know what he means

I think if GZ has chosen not to expose what this evidence is yet then we should respect his wishes, he did say that he would reveal all after the case was done or did I read that somewhere else?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I agree the judge was wrong

But, we are really stuck with this judgment, as it stands

Pity, because many emminent barristers included the argument in their clients defence, ("14 clear days") and were successful...

[Guest]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Lat time I checked I was not an old boy GZ LOL! but you can call me that if you wish.

PT, you know your stuff and I appreciate your words of advice and warning. Like I said I really do not know what to do. Yes the creditor can refuse a smaller payment in consideration of a larger payment, but where the bloody hell were we suppose to know something like prior to signing our souls away.

If had been written in our agreement something like:

IF FOR ANY REASON IN THE FUTURE YOU SUFFER ANY KIND OF FINANCIAL DIFFICULTY WHETHER IT WAS YOUR OWN DOING OR NOT, AND IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY THE MINIMUM SUM REQUIRED JUST TO INFORM YOU THAT WE DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT ANY SMALLER OFFERED BY YOU

AND BY THE WAY THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THIS. THANK YOU NOW SIGN HERE IF YOU STILL WANT TO BE LEGALLY BOUND BY OUR TERMS AND CONDITIONS.

How many of us would have taken out agreements? No excuse I know but makes you think hey?

You really do not any idea of what an agrement is do you?

If you make an agreement it means you both agree to its tems there is a clue inthe word agreement.
If you breach the agreement then the creditor does not hae to accept anything he can sue.

Their are organisations to ensure that the creditor deals fairly with the debtor in times of hardship thes are not the county courts.

Peter

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

PT

I hear (read) what you are saying, yes the judgment [is] wrong.

The Bard, I wondered when you were going to rear your head, I see you came in on the back of PT's comments.

In this case, the debtor did not default, a breach yes, a minor one at that, but not honour the agreement? Absolutely no, this defence for this particular case, there is nothing technical about it


The Bard, yes adjourned!! and this was after the claimant's app for Summary Judgment FAILED, why did it fail? Because the creditor repudiated on the agreement, fundamental breach of contract by the creditor!! The Bard, do not respond with your usual dribble referring to the said act (1974) and what the creditor is and is not entitled to do.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

no sorry the Link Financial one where the court said the agreement was irredeemably unenforceable

MBNA/Link Financial

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

OK Peter for arguments sake in your opinion let me put this question to you:

What do you think HSBC has done to deal with me fairly in all of this?

Yes I know what an agreement is as I am sure the majority of people who are facing financial crisis at the moment.

Was my breach of the agreement so severe that there was no other way for the creditor to fix? I cannot remember reading on my agreement that if I miss a few months payment then my agreement would be canceled but I will go and have a read now word for word.

Then again even if I don't find these words I am sure that someone will point out a certain act which says that this is possible.

[Guest]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

When I received my DN I did contact HSBC AGAIN WITH ANOTHER OFFER.

Maybe they thought I was offering them money in francs and that is why they kept refusing. I must go and check what I wrote!
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And what a lovely thought that is LA.
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I think if GZ has chosen not to expose what this evidence is yet then we should respect his wishes, he did say that he would reveal all after the case was done or did I read that somewhere else?

Seen all this before secret evdence, dont wish to disclose, rubbish it is none existant. Time to call a spade a spade before someone gets hurt following this.

Look over the road and see how many people have been left hanging out to dry after following these ramblings.

In fact dont even have to go that far.

Peter

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

PT

I hear (read) what you are saying, yes the judgment [is] wrong.

The Bard, I wondered when you were going to rear your head, I see you came in on the back of PT's comments.

In this case, the debtor did not default, a breach yes, a minor one at that, but not honour the agreement? Absolutely no, this defence for this particular case, there is nothing technical about it


The Bard, yes adjourned!! and this was after the claimant's app for Summary Judgment FAILED, why did it fail? Because the creditor repudiated on the agreement, fundamental breach of contract by the creditor!! The Bard, do not respond with your usual dribble referring to the said act (1974) and what the creditor is and is not entitled to do.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

I'll get my coat and leave you to squabble...

[WendyB]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

For God's sake, and I know it's not my place as I'm not a member of site team, but I'm going to say it anyway.

STOP ARGUING AND MAKING SNIDE COMMENTS!!!

BTW Godzilla, I presume you meant drivel not dribble? But whether you did or not, either is insulting, IMO. And no I'm not having a go at just you, I am merely pointing out a fact.

We have had enough petty squabbling, I for one don't want to read it. But more importantly it detracts from the thread and doesn't help the OP one iota.

Healthy debate and constructive criticism are great, but can you just stick to facts and opinions without the sarcasm and sniping please.

[Guest]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

OK Peter for arguments sake in your opinion let me put this question to you:

What do you think HSBC has done to deal with me fairly in all of this?

Yes I know what an agreement is as I am sure the majority of people who are facing financial crisis at the moment.

Was my breach of the agreement so severe that there was no other way for the creditor to fix? I cannot remember reading on my agreement that if I miss a few months payment then my agreement would be canceled but I will go and have a read now word for word.

Then again even if I don't find these words I am sure that someone will point out a certain act which says that this is possible.

There are organisations for ensuring that the creditor dealt fairly with you. the FOs negotiated a deal where you could pay £1 a month.
The court will think that this is pretty fair.
The court will consider that the creditor has been predudiced enough in thaat he cannot get his money back for 10 years or so dont you think. I do sympathise with your siruation but telling you what you want to hear will not help although it may make me more popular.

Peter

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I too agree with you too peter, but I went to the FOS as I had no choice the way that HSBC were being so unfair and unreasonable with me.

What I can't understand is why did they agree to the FOS to accept £1 when before I was offering more, and supplied them with all the evidence to prove my situation?

Yes it is unfair that the creditor may have to wait 10 years to get their money, not that I would leave it that long but they put themselves in this unfair position themselves.

They were unfair to me when I needed a little help, and now they can claim that it is unfair for them? Sound like a case of having a wife at home and a bit on the side for these lenders hey?

HSBC have bought this prejudiced upon themselves when there was no need for it at all, I on the other hand did not have any choice.

The only reason that I asked HSBC to accept smaller payments for a few months was that British Gas had not sent me Gas & Electric bill for some time and then they sent it all in one go. I was threatened with disconnection, have all the papers to prove, so I had a choice to either sit in the dark with a candle or pay HSBC.

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

There are organisations for ensuring that the creditor dealt fairly with you. the FOs negotiated a deal where you could pay £1 a month.
The court will think that this is pretty fair.
The court will consider that the creditor has been predudiced enough in thaat he cannot get his money back for 10 years or so dont you think. I do sympathise with your siruation but telling you what you want to hear will not help although it may make me more popular.

Peter

Failure of a creditor to comply with s88 and get that failure sanctioned by a higher court prejudices all consumers under regulated contracts IMO as lenders can now terminate on breach without offering the full entitlement to remedy.

In my view a very serious prejudice, and far more than the nonsensical virtual "prejudice" suffered by banks when they cannot get their documentation in order even when funded up to the hilt with public money.

As for the bank and its money, Jumper may well have paid more in than taken out if it is a CC account.

LA

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Seen all this before secret evdence, dont wish to disclose, rubbish it is none existant. Time to call a spade a spade before someone gets hurt following this.

Look over the road and see how many people have been left hanging out to dry after following these ramblings.

In fact dont even have to go that far.

Peter

As stated, keep the post on the subject at hand, if you want to invite me to play a game of chess with you Mr Bard, why don't you just ask?

Secret evidence? It has been disclosed in Court, there is nothing secret about it, the case has yet to be concluded, my friend, and I for that matter, know that the opponents visit these forums, he does not want the full details put out here in the public domain until the case is over.

I do not and never have left anyone out to dry.

If you are going to post here Mr Bard, then as a matter of respect, I ask you to post something relevant to the case that the op is facing.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

You can say that again LA, when I read how much I have paid almost makes me think what the matter was with me. I am sure HSBC made a tidy profit