Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

right with you now, you saying the SJ had been adjourned until today was confusing me.

So the SJ application was knocked out, good stuff, whats the current status of the case ?

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

How can an adjournment be classed as a success? it isn't over yet so surely we would need to know the final outcome before it can be deemed success or fail. Presumably the "success2 was using this important document to get the adjournment? What is this mysterious document, might be helpful to others if you told us what it was and what part of CPR you used?

I'm no expert in CCA but I am interested.

And a personal opinion - can we not start throwing insults around?

Hello Wendy

Yes, message received and understood.

Please see my recent post here regarding the success of this defence.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

You missed a few payments, but at or during that time you were communicating with the creditor informing him of your financial difficulties and clearly you were making a serious effort to re-pay or bring the arrears up to date, the creditor refused your offers.

In these circumstances you gave a clear and unequivocal statement to the creditor and that was that you had no intention of breaking the agreement/contract, buy refusing to allow you to make lesser payments and bring the account up to date, the creditor's cause of action (terminating) was unjust, the DN [is] an issue/part of your defence, but what is central to your defence is the fact that it is the creditor who broke the agreement/contract, his actions [are] a fundamental breach of the contract, the creditor repudiated the agreement/contract at a time when it simply was unjust to do so.

Have read back a bit now. There are many cases in this position as I'm sure you are aware, so it is very interesting you believe that despite having broken the original terms of the agreement by making an offer to pay of a lower amount, the creditor is faulty in defaulting.

If the offer to pay to make up arrears on a monthly basis over a sensible period (ie within the term of the contract) is on top of continuing the contractual payments and that offer is made before default then I agree, if not I'm not so sure I do.

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

No, the SJ was never adjourned, the SJ FAILED, my friend was then granted leave to amend his defence, his original defence was an 'Embarrassed Defence' (I really do not like those types of defences).

So the claimant made the said app (SJ) based on my friend's ED, that's when I came on the scene, there were just 3 days to go before the hearing for SJ. I went through the paperwork with my friend and spotted the document that he used to defeat the claimant's app for SJ.

As you can imagine, the claimant was not very happy about that, now the claimant knows that he is going to have an extemely difficult, practically impossible time in achieving a successful outcome for his claim.

The Brandon case has no bearing on this case, yes there is a DN involved in this case, but that DN is not central to the defence (although it is defective).

I hope that clears up any confusion.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

No, the SJ was never adjourned, the SJ FAILED, my friend was then granted leave to amend his defence, his original defence was an 'Embarrassed Defence' (I really do not like those types of defences).

Thanks thats clearer, and no I hate embarrased defences too. extension and disclosure seems better.

Glad this isn't hinging on a DN as that water is seemingly rather murky at present. Hopefully something regarding the offer to pay and a document declining or accepting this. But guess will just wait the outcome...assuming as SJ was defeated we are waiting on full hearing now then?

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Have read back a bit now. There are many cases in this position as I'm sure you are aware, so it is very interesting you believe that despite having broken the original terms of the agreement by making an offer to pay of a lower amount, the creditor is faulty in defaulting.

If the offer to pay to make up arrears on a monthly basis over a sensible period (ie within the term of the contract) is on top of continuing the contractual payments and that offer is made before default then I agree, if not I'm not so sure I do.

Hello again

Yes this is a complex area of law, I am confident that in jumper's case, the defence will hold and conclude with success for jumper.

These cases will be decided on the circumstances of each case, there will be comparators and this will assist the Courts to establish the Rule (or Rules) on this particular subject.

OK, for now, I am not giving up all of my arguments on this subject (no offence to anyone), there are going to be successful cases in this area and there are going to be failures, this is not a cut and dried situation, it is not always going to be an open and shut case.

Anyway, somehow, I hope that helps.

Kind Regards

Godzilla
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Thanks thats clearer, and no I hate embarrased defences too. extension and disclosure seems better.

Glad this isn't hinging on a DN as that water is seemingly rather murky at present. Hopefully something regarding the offer to pay and a document declining or accepting this. But guess will just wait the outcome...assuming as SJ was defeated we are waiting on full hearing now then?

Yes Amethyst, that's right, yesterday was the day of the full hearing and both parties agreed to adjourn.

As soon as the matter is concluded I shall post up the final result.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks, much clearer in my head now (and hopefully others too). Look forward to its conclusion and hopefully it will assist jumper, and others in similar positions.

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Jumper

I shall catch up with you later on today. (this evening I mean)

Well, I do hope that your mind set is now tuned to a more positive frequency, I am certain that it is.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[Guest]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

HI
I am a but unclear abiout this, my fault i am sure but didnt the creditor eventually accept a payment of one pound a month.

Wasnt this judged to be equitable by the FOS

Do you think the court will ignore these facts. No not a rhetorical question do you really. I am interetsted to know.

Kindest regards and salutations

Peter

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks thats clearer, and no I hate embarrased defences too. extension and disclosure seems better.

Glad this isn't hinging on a DN as that water is seemingly rather murky at present. Hopefully something regarding the offer to pay and a document declining or accepting this. But guess will just wait the outcome...assuming as SJ was defeated we are waiting on full hearing now then?

WHOOOOO HOOOOO

Ive been trying to advocate this approach for months

Embarrased defences dont work, short term they may, but how sad will you feel when the opponents apply for costs as a result. I have a few sad clients who didnt like being ordered to pay average of £3k costs as a result of embarrassed Defences

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Kindest regards and salutations

Peter

Please, cut out the sarcasm, Peter...bally annoying!!!

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

HI
I am a but unclear abiout this, my fault i am sure but didnt the creditor eventually accept a payment of one pound a month.

Wasnt this judged to be equitable by the FOS

Do you think the court will ignore these facts. No not a rhetorical question do you really. I am interetsted to know.

Kindest regards and salutations

Peter

Yes HSBC or should I say MCSL agreed that I could pay £1 a mth for 6 mths then they would review my situation.

Now I would have agreed but I did not know what figure I was agreeing too. The sum that HSBC claimed I owed had many fees and charges included, that is one of the reason my credit went over the limit.

I had applied for my data request from HSBC in Dec 08 and received it in Jan 10. I needed to know the true amount I owed and therefore could not agree blindly to a sum that I knew was not the true sum.

Maybe the court will not ignore this fact but behind this fact is a very logical and honest explanation.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

WHOOOOO HOOOOO

Ive been trying to advocate this approach for months

Embarrased defences dont work, short term they may, but how sad will you feel when the opponents apply for costs as a result. I have a few sad clients who didnt like being ordered to pay average of £3k costs as a result of embarrassed Defences

Always seemed a strange thing to do especially many people who were putting them in knew exactly what the debt was and that they owed it, by virtue of pre action letters etc, and it really didnt seem to fit, plus that people didnt understand what they were putting in and it was being used as a stalling measure in essence.


If you fancy it a brief outline how to ask for extension and disclosure of the docs needed to defend and in what circs to use it would be very helpful, to me, if no one else.

I get the basics but the practise and the comebacks I'm not sure on.

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

will see what i can do,

oh btw, the judgment was handed down on Friday


At long last, and i will have another judgment transcribed vs Cabot soon enough.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

MBNA ? cool, are we able to see it?