Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

I wouldn't use the word "heavies". I think you want to say
In December 2008 the account was passed onto Moorcroft DCA who sent a "notice of intended litigation" and demanded payment in full of an amount of £939.29"

[enaid]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

get your point nattie lol, cheers x

[WendyB]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

I am writing in response to your letter dated 20 April 2009.
You thanked me for being patient whilst you investigated this matter.
In fact I have lost what ever bit of patience I have ever had over this matter, hence the complaints to the FOS and the OFT.

I will now try once more to explain about this account to you, this will be the last time. You may take me to court if you so wish, I think it may be necessary actually, then a judge can explain to you just what you are doing wrong.

In January 2008, 15 months ago, I wrote to you about the charges being applied to my account and the fact they may not be lawful. You wrote back and explained about the OFT case. You stated my complaint had been logged and I would be updated with any further news on the case.

I became unemployed about this time and was in fact unable to meet my financial commitments; on your advice I entered into a Debt Management Plan with CCCS.
My initial payment was made to yourselves in February 2008 and has been made monthly through CCCS since.
In May 2008 you sent a ‘Formal notice of Intention to file a default’ unless a satisfactory arrangement was made to pay back the bank. I assumed that this was being done already through CCCS as you had been accepting the payments over the last 3 months.
Also in May 2008 the account was passed to TDM for collection.

In June you updated me on the OFT case.
Also in June 2008 another ‘Intention to file a default’ letter.

August 2008 a letter advising me the account is being passed to Credit Management Services as my payments through CCCS were apparently “insufficient to repay my debt over a term acceptable to the Bank”
Also August 2008 a letter from Credit Management Services demanding the repayment of all sums due. I replied by telephone and it was agreed to pay £6 per month through CCCS.
At last all is ok I thought, until only a few days later, a letter from Triton arrives. A final notice demanding full payment, or off to court I go.
Whoops same day a letter from Triton , they are pleased we have come to a temporary agreement of £6 per month.
Must be all ok now, everyone at Natwest, TDM and Triton know I am in a Debt Management Plan with CCCS and am paying what I can and agreed to, £6 per month.
November 2008 ‘Terminated Overdraft’ amount now owing is £939.29, still paying through CCCS.
December 2008 letter from Triton stating that my payments are in arrears.

In December 2008 the account was passed onto Moorcroft DCA who sent a "notice of intended litigation" and demanded payment in full of an amount of £939.29"
Moorcroft were phoning regularly and I have quite a few letters from them, mostly saying I will be going to court.
It is at this stage I decided to complain about Natwest and the treatment of this account to the FOS, I also have put in a complaint to the OFT.

I have as a layman been following the OFT case with much interest. I did indeed read the guidelines from the FSA Waiver. I read in the DSA waiver that passing disputed debts on to DCA’s was not allowed. For your ease of reference I have copied the relevant paragraph below.


"(18)
the firm must not close accounts or threaten closure of accounts of customers when it might reasonably appear that this is for the purpose (or with the intent) of penalising customers that have complained about unauthorised overdraft charges for having complained, or deterring future complaints from these customers or others. For the avoidance of doubt, the firm may close accounts or threaten to close accounts where there is good justification for doing so based on the circumstances of the particular case;"

I can see no plainer case than that of mine, when the total is made up purely of charges on an Overdraft account. My complaints have been logged numerous times as I have replied to each and every letter from yourselves and others trying to collect this money.

I have all the letters received from yourselves and copies of the ones I have sent to you.
You have indeed broken most of the rules of the waiver with this account and have caused much distress to myself and my family.

If you still insist that you are in the right on this matter then I have everything in order and can only suggest you take me to court.;

Di, I've had a quick modge, nothing major, hope you don't mind. But I'm not sure that that's the relevant paragraph, it's about them not being allowed to close the account, don't we want one about them not passing to DCA for chasing?

[enaid]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

yes i do really

[Tools]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

Some parts to quote from the OFT 664 document for Nelly

2.6 f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,
or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

2.6 h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are
disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

2.6 c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such
as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money
advisers
d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives

2.6 i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is
queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued

2.6 k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or
disputed debt.

And from Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress, or humiliation;


(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

[enaid]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

oh lol they are naughty, thenks Tools xx

[Tools]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

And also this from the waiver terms from here http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Re..._quarterly.pdf

15.
When dealing with complainants in financial difficulty, the firm should consider the following steps in respect of the period during which they are assessed as being in financial difficulty:
(a)
the firm might waive future unauthorised overdraft charges; and
(b)
the firm might not enforce debts against complainants in financial difficulty to the extent that these debts are made up of unauthorised overdraft charges.

[WendyB]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

Well this is my latest attempt, except I couldn't work out how to get Tool's quoty bit out of quotes!! It's still a bit long though, needs "concising" a bit!

I am writing in response to your letter dated 20 April 2009.
You thanked me for being patient whilst you investigated this matter, however, I must inform you that I have now lost any remaining shreds of patience, following your complete and utter inability to deal with it as per the relevant guidelines laid down by the FSA/OFT whoever ( I can't bloody well remember who it is, my brain has gone to mush!). I must advise you that I have now complained to both the OFT and FSA regarding your bank's woeful disregard of the waiver conditions.


I will now try once more to explain the situation for a final time. If this matter cannot be resolved, you may take me to court if you so wish. In fact, I think it may be necessary, so that a Judge can explain to you exactly what your organisation is doing wrong.

In January 2008, 15 months ago, I wrote to you about the charges being applied to my account and the fact they may not be lawful. You wrote back and explained about the OFT case. You stated my complaint had been logged and I would be updated with any further news on the case.

I became unemployed about this time and was unable to meet my financial commitments; on your advice I entered into a Debt Management Plan with CCCS.
My initial payment was made to yourselves in February 2008 and has been made monthly through CCCS since.
In May 2008 you sent a ‘Formal notice of Intention to file a default’ unless a satisfactory arrangement was made to pay back the bank. I assumed that this was being done already through CCCS as you had been accepting the payments over the last 3 months.
Also in May 2008 the account was passed to TDM for collection.

In June you updated me on the OFT case.
Also in June 2008 another ‘Intention to file a default’ letter.

August 2008 a letter advising me the account was being passed to Credit Management Services as my payments through CCCS were apparently “insufficient to repay my debt over a term acceptable to the Bank”
Also August 2008 a letter from Credit Management Services demanding the repayment of all sums due. I replied by telephone and it was agreed to pay £6 per month through CCCS.
At last all is ok I thought, until only a few days later, a letter from Triton arrives. A final notice demanding full payment, or off to court I go.
On the same day I recieved letter from Triton , stating that they are pleased we have come to a temporary agreement of £6 per month.
Must be all ok now, everyone at Natwest, TDM and Triton know I am in a Debt Management Plan with CCCS and am paying what I can and agreed to, £6 per month.
November 2008 ‘Terminated Overdraft’ amount now owing is £939.29, still paying through CCCS.
December 2008 letter from Triton stating that my payments are in arrears.

In December 2008 the account was passed onto Moorcroft DCA who sent a "notice of intended litigation" and demanded payment in full of an amount of £939.29"
Moorcroft were phoning regularly and I have quite a few letters from them, mostly saying I will be going to court.
It is at this stage I decided to complain about Natwest and the treatment of this account to the FOS, I also have put in a complaint to the OFT.

I have as a layman been following the OFT case with much interest. I did indeed read the guidelines from the FSA Waiver. I read in the FSA waiver that passing disputed debts on to DCA’s was not allowed. For your ease of reference I have copied some of the relevant paragrapsh below, so that you may be in no doubt which terms of the waiver you are either breaking or not following.

From OFT 664 document

2.6 f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,
or to increase payments when they are unable to do so
2.6 h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are
disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment
2.6 c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such
as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money
advisers
d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives
2.6 i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is
queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued
2.6 k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or
disputed debt.
From Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress, or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

I can see no plainer case than that of mine, when the total is made up purely of charges on an Overdraft account. The original amount was £5xx, which has now risen to £9xx, an increase of xxx, purely because of charges, which the waiver clearly state should not be added to an account once in dispute, nor should said account be passed to any third party for collection whilst it is in dispute. I would suggest that your organisation trains its staff in dealing with the waiver and OFT guidelines.

My complaints have been logged numerous times as I have replied to each and every letter from yourselves and others trying to collect this money, all of whom are in blatant diregard for what should be happening in this situation.

I have all the letters received from yourselves and copies of the ones I have sent to you.
You have indeed broken most of the rules of the waiver with this account and have caused much distress to myself and my family.

If you still insist that you are in the right on this matter then I have everything in order and can only suggest you take me to court.

[enaid]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

Thanks Wendy,
You should have just copied and pasted the quotes.
I don't think it is long at all, I have tried to do a diary of their letters that's all and explain how the account has been passed from pillar to post.
How can they justify demanding money that may not be owed, they are the ones keep updating on the OFT case.
So thanks again, I will wait now for final check and the copy, paste and post

[TUTTSI]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

I think I would write this letter to the CEO and bypass the department who keeps messing up.

[WendyB]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

Well I think this is my final offering, you just need to put in the amounts at the end. it might be as well to put actual dates, also, rather than Jan 2008 etc.

I am writing in response to your letter dated 20 April 2009.
You thanked me for being patient whilst you investigated this matter, however, I must inform you that I have now lost any remaining shreds of patience, following your complete and utter inability to deal with the matter as per the relevant guidelines laid down by the FSA for dealing with cases such as this whilst the waiver remains in place. I must advise you that I have now complained to both the OFT and FSA regarding your bank's woeful disregard of the waiver conditions.

I will now try once more to explain the situation for a final time. If this matter cannot be resolved, you may take me to court if you so wish. In fact, I think it may be necessary, so that a Judge can explain to you exactly what your organisation is doing wrong.

For ease of reference I have will detail below in diarised form.

In January 2008, 15 months ago, I wrote to you about the charges being applied to my account and the fact they may not be lawful. You wrote back and explained about the OFT case. You stated my complaint had been logged and I would be updated with any further news on the case.

I became unemployed about this time and was unable to meet my financial commitments; on your advice I entered into a Debt Management Plan with CCCS.
My initial payment was made to yourselves in February 2008 and has been made monthly through CCCS since, with no payments being missed, or any arrears at any point.

May 2008 you sent a ‘Formal notice of Intention to file a default’ unless a satisfactory arrangement was made to pay back the bank. I assumed that this was being done already through CCCS as you had been accepting the payments over the last 3 months.

May 2008 the account was passed to TDM for collection.

June 2008 you updated me on the OFT case.
June 2008 a second ‘Intention to file a default’ letter.

August 2008 a letter advising me the account was being passed to Credit Management Services as my payments through CCCS were apparently “insufficient to repay my debt over a term acceptable to the Bank”
August 2008 a letter from Credit Management Services demanding the repayment of all sums due. I replied by telephone and it was agreed to pay £6 per month through CCCS.
At this point i began to believe that matters had at last been sorted to a mutually acceptable conclusion, however only a few days later
I received a second letter from Triton, which was a Final Notice demanding full payment or court action. Rather bizarrely, I recieved, on the same day, another letter from Triton, stating that they are pleased we have come to a temporary agreement of £6 per month.

At this point it is obvious that Natwest, Triton and TDM are aware that I have in place a DMP with CCCS and am paying an agreed amount of £6 each month.

November 2008 ‘Terminated Overdraft’ amount now owing is £939.29, still paying through CCCS.

December 2008 letter from Triton stating that my payments are in arrears. Payments were not, and never have been, in arrears, as i continued to pay through CCCS as previously agreed.

December 2008 the account was passed onto Moorcroft DCA who sent a "notice of intended litigation" and demanded payment in full of an amount of £939.29.
Moorcroft were phoning regularly and I have quite a few letters from them, mostly threatening court action.

It was at this stage I decided to complain about Natwest and the treatment of this account to the FOS, I also have put in a complaint to the OFT.

I have as a layman been following the OFT case with much interest. I did indeed read the guidelines from the FSA Waiver. I read in the FSA waiver that passing disputed debts on to DCA’s was not allowed. For your ease of reference I have copied some of the relevant paragraphs below, so that you may be in no doubt which terms of the waiver you are either breaking or not following correctly.

From OFT 664 document

2.6 f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,
or to increase payments when they are unable to do so
2.6 h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are
disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment
2.6 c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such
as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money
advisers
d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives
2.6 i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is
queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued
2.6 k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or
disputed debt.

From Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress, or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

I can see no plainer case than that of mine, when the total is made up purely of charges on an Overdraft account. The original amount was £5xx, which has now risen to £9xx, an increase of xxx, purely because of charges, which the waiver clearly state should not be added to an account once in dispute, nor should said account be passed to any third party for collection whilst it is in dispute. I would suggest that your organisation trains its staff in dealing with the waiver and OFT guidelines.

My complaints have been logged numerous times as I have replied to each and every letter from yourselves and others trying to collect this money, all of whom are in blatant disregard for what should be happening in this situation.

I have all the letters received from yourselves and copies of the ones I have sent to you.
You have indeed broken most of the rules of the waiver with this account and have caused much distress to myself and my family.

I am not trying to avoid paying debts which I owe, which is plainly illustrated by the fact that I have entered a Debt Management Plan. However, the original amount owing on this account in January 2008 was £xxx, which due to your continued unwillingness to reach a conclusion has now risen to £xxx.

I expect to hear from you within 14 days regarding the above, with your written confirmation that this account and complaintwill in future be treated correctly in accordance with the guidelines outlined above.

If you persist in the avoidance of your obligations, then be advised that I have all relevant documentation in order can only suggest that you file a case against me in Court.

[Paule]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

Last paragragh needs checking/ grammar sorting.

2nd to last para, need space between 'complaint will'

[WendyB]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

I expect to hear from you within 14 days regarding the above, with your written confirmation that this account and complaint will in future be treated correctly in accordance with the guidelines outlined above.

If you persist in the avoidance of your obligations, then be advised that I have all relevant documentation in order and can only suggest that you file a case against me in Court.

[enaid]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

Is it ok now PK?

[WendyB]

Re: Ding-Ding Round 2 Enaids lad

Nice girl called Sharon on 0845 303 0456. Said she hadn't got Stephen Geddes's address (but at least she knew who he was lol). Expained situation and that I wanted an address for someone who knew what they were talking about. She tried to give me Borehamwood but i told her I'd already phoned them and they were crap. So she says best one is

Customer Response Services
Drummond House
1 Redhewghes Avenue (yes this is the right spelling, she spelt it out twice for me)
Edinburgh
EH12 9JN


Se also said that it sounds like he might have a case for hardship and did he want to apply? I said no, not at the moment but thanks for asking.