scared of bailiffs

[samwiggy]

Hi. Wandering if someone could help with advice. A bailiff called at my flat on Wednesday and posted a letter saying 24hour notice of attendence. I rung him and asked if I could pay 10 pound a week to pay off council tax debt of 1000 pound. He told me he would work something out bit when he comes out I have to pay him 50 before anything, I said I would have it till next Wed so he said hell come back then. I'm in arrears for council tax 2010 and this year. It's my own fault really let things het ok top of me since I had my son Sept 2010, my brother commuted suicide Nov 2010 and then lost my grandad in Jan 2011. I know its no excuse but everything got abit too much and kept getting letters from council so burried my head in sand. I rang the council but they said I had to deal with bailiff. I only work 16 hours a week due to be having 2 small kids on my own and get majority of council tax paid but not sure what I can do with bailiff. Should I just pay him the 50 pound on Wednesday and then whatever he tells me to pay. The bailiff is with Jacobs.
Sorry for post been so long.
Any advice is much appreciated.
Thankyou

[wenlewis]

Re: scared of bailiffs

I would try emailing Jacobs office on Merseyside with your offer and explaining you can't afford the £50. I have a complaint going through at the moment with CIVEA as they charged me for a van to remove goods when the letter said they would be back in 48 hours!

[labman]

Re: scared of bailiffs

Re Council Tax you do not have to have anything to do with the bailiffs at all, whatever the bailiffs and the council tell you.

My suggestion would be to work out an affordable repayment plan that you can stick to and makepayments directly online or via their automated telephone system. Try to clear things by April 1st 2013 if you possibly can - it will make life easier.

Write to the council and tell them (don't ask, tell!) what you are doing to clear the darrears and make it clear that you have no intention of dealing with any bailiffs.

In the meantime, it is quite likely the bailiffs have inflated the debt due, so send Letter 1 from here:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

Also phone the council and find out:

1. How many Liability Orders they have against you?
2. The dates they were obtained?
3. The addresses they were for?
4. The period of time each covers?
5. How much each one was for?
6. How much is still outstanding?
7. The dates they were passed on for enforcement?

Other than that one phone call to the council, do not phone anyone, keep everything in writing (email is OK).

You mention that you went through a hard time with things. Were you treated by the doctor for this? Are you single?

Finally have a read of this which will hopefully help:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?34067-Council-Tax

[bluebottle]

Re: scared of bailiffs

Wenlewis,

CIVEA are a waste of time and space as they are a trade body for certificated bailiff companies.

Samwiggy,

It sounds like you could be classed as vulnerable within the meaning of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. The local authority is 100% vicariously-liable for the actions of Jacobs. Legally, there is no requirement or obligation for you to deal with bailiffs. You can pay the council direct using internet banking or their automated payment system. Doing this builds up a payment history and makes it more difficult for the local authority to justify the use of bailiffs or any further measures, like, going back to court for orders of any description. If, however, the council will not accept your payment or tries to prevent you making payments to them, they are breaking the law and could be taken before a court and asked to explain why they are refusing payments.

I am attaching a copy of the MoJ's National Standards for Enforcement Agents to this post. The vast majority of local authorities and certificated bailiff companies have signed their acceptance of these standards and to abide by them, albeit that the Standards are not enshrined in legislation.

[ploddertom]

Re: scared of bailiffs

I would try emailing Jacobs office on Merseyside with your offer and explaining you can't afford the £50. I have a complaint going through at the moment with CIVEA as they charged me for a van to remove goods when the letter said they would be back in 48 hours!

Not being funny but don't expect much back as CIVEA are paid for by the enforcement companies - a sort of old boys club.

[labman]

Re: scared of bailiffs

Wenlewis,

CIVEA are a waste of time and space as they are a trade body for certificated bailiff companies.

Samwiggy,

It sounds like you could be classed as vulnerable within the meaning of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. The local authority is 100% vicariously-liable for the actions of Jacobs. Legally, there is no requirement or obligation for you to deal with bailiffs. You can pay the council direct using internet banking or their automated payment system. Doing this builds up a payment history and makes it more difficult for the local authority to justify the use of bailiffs or any further measures, like, going back to court for orders of any description. If, however, the council will not accept your payment or tries to prevent you making payments to them, they are breaking the law and could be taken before a court and asked to explain why they are refusing payments.

I am attaching a copy of the MoJ's National Standards for Enforcement Agents to this post. The vast majority of local authorities and certificated bailiff companies have signed their acceptance of these standards and to abide by them, albeit that the Standards are not enshrined in legislation.

I just said all that! The reason I asked the questions at the end was to ascertain for certain whether or not the OP would be classed as vulnerable without causing unnecessary reading at this stage.

[bluebottle]

Re: scared of bailiffs

I clicked on the Reputation button on your post, Labman, leaving you a message saying that our posts had crossed. From the timing of both our posts, 12:51, it looks like we were both thinking of the same thing at the same time. Spooky, eh?

[labman]

Re: scared of bailiffs

And with Halloween approaching.........

[bluebottle]

Re: scared of bailiffs

And with Halloween approaching.........

Exactly.

[samwiggy]

Re: scared of bailiffs

When I spoke to the bailiff on the phone he said I had to pay him not the council and when he comes back Wednesday I have to pay him minimum of 50 pound before he considers me paying debt back in installments. I rung the council and all they said is that I have to deal if bailiffs now. Don't know what I can do and getting scared as its approaching Wednesday and I am on my own with a 6 and 2 year old kids and don't want them getting scared when he bangs on my door

[bluebottle]

Re: scared of bailiffs

Right. Gloves off. The local authority has no power, legal or otherwise, to tell you to deal with a bailiff. Likewise, a bailiff has no such power to tell you to deal with him and not the council. The first thing you are going to do - and make sure you do it this evening - is file a formal complaint with OFT Credit Fitness Team against Jacobs. They are in breach of OFT Debt Collection Guidelines by attempting to make you pay more than you can afford, using deceitful methods and harassment. There fore, I am attaching a copy each of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines and a document that takes you through the process of making a complaint to OFT Credit Fitness Team against a bailiff company. You will need to quote the following details in the complaint -

Company Name: Jacobs Certified Bailiffs Ltd
CCA Licence No.: 600520

You should also read through the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, identify any breaches by Jacobs and list them in your complaint.

You can pay the council directly using their automated payment system or internet banking. This will then build up a payment history and make it more difficult for the council to justify applying for any court orders. Make sure you pay the council on the same day of each week and keep a record of transaction references.

If the Jerk from Jacobs turns up, do not open the door to him and tell him you are making payments to the council directly and will provide him with transaction references if required. Also, tell him, firmly, that there is nothing in law that requires you to deal with him and that you have checked the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (as amended) [I'm attaching a copy of this, too.]

If he kicks off and starts making any form of threat(s), warn him that he is breaking the law and that you will call the police and tell them he is committing a Breach of the Peace. Being a retired policeman, I can tell you that when you ring the police and tell them there is a Breach of the Peace taking place, they'll be round like shot out of a gun.

[ploddertom]

Re: scared of bailiffs

Extra to what Bluebottle has mentioned above may I suggest you stay off the phone to the Bailiff unless you can record the call - Bailiffs have selective memories when they recall what was said otherwise.

[labman]

Re: scared of bailiffs

I stand by what I said in post 3. Pay what you can afford directly to the council using their automated telephone system or online. You do not have to have anything at all to do with the bailiffs. If the council say otherwise and refuse to deal with, ask them to put it in writing.

DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM EITHER ON THE PHONE OR OTHERWISE! They won't like it, but there's little they can do.

[bluebottle]

Re: scared of bailiffs

I stand by what I said in post 3. Pay what you can afford directly to the council using their automated telephone system or online. You do not have to have anything at all to do with the bailiffs. If the council say otherwise and refuse to deal with, ask them to put it in writing.

DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM EITHER ON THE PHONE OR OTHERWISE! They won't like it, but there's little they can do.

I have had a quick look through the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (as amended) and can find no provision that requires a CT debtor to deal with an enforcement agent appointed by a local authority or which allows a local authority to refuse to accept payments directly from a CT debtor following the local authority passing a debt to a contracted enforcement agent.

Do as Labman says. They won't like it, but there's little, if anything, they can do.

[samwiggy]

Re: scared of bailiffs

I have had a quick look through the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (as amended) and can find no provision that requires a CT debtor to deal with an enforcement agent appointed by a local authority or which allows a local authority to refuse to accept payments directly from a CT debtor following the local authority passing a debt to a contracted enforcement agent.

Do as Labman says. They won't like it, but there's little, if anything, they can do.

is emailing the council any good? Can I just ignore the bailiff when he comes tomorrow? Thankyou for all your help.