Not my debt

[CleverClogs]

Re: Not my debt

A form 4 complaint would not be wise, as bailiffs have taken to perverting the process by taking along a barrister who'll twist the complainant up in verbal knots, then clobber the complainant with costs.

[Guest]

Re: Not my debt

I dont think this is form 4 material, but if you want to make an official complaint anyway, have Citizens Advice do it for you. You will need to make an affidavit giving a chronology of ebents that took place. That strengthens your complaint and cannot be rebuked unless evidence to the contrary is proved.

Its is worth noting there is no evidence a form 4 complainant has been 'clobbered' with barristers costs, and evidence to the contrary does exist.

[bizzybob]

Re: Not my debt

They supported the bailiff because thats what they have todo I do not believe for one moment they would just let them in without notice from someone who they were the bailiff called the police in the first place not KeithB.

No they DON@T have to support the bailiff, they are there to keep the peace, and actually the police need training in bailiff law, as they seem to think the bailiff is on the same side, he isn't he can often be the criminal.

[teaboy2]

Re: Not my debt

Personnally i would make a complaint to the idependant police complaints commission regarding the police officers actions and unlawful arrest, and to the ministry of justice regarding the Balliffs unlawful actions. It is unlawful for a bailiff to not show you ID or a Warrant. It is unlawful for them to enter your property without showing you a warrant to search your house. The police can not search your house without a warrant (unless you grant them access), so clearly neither can a bailiff, or in this case a person claiming to be a bailiff. The police aided and abetted the bailiff committing trespass and unlawful entry to your property (unlawful as they did not show you the warrant or their IDs). The police unlawfully arrested you for breach of the peace in your own property when you were merely, and quite lawfully, protecting your property and partner from an unlawful intruder that was tresspassing.

You may also wish to contact the local press too to add a bit of pressure onto the police for their officers actions. But only do this once you have made the complaints to the above.

[cheekymonkey07]

Re: Not my debt

Clever Clogs the post was about the Balliff not the police everyone makes mistakes even me LOL. But when the mist clears the fault is with the boy in question he broke the law why twist it yes maybe there is a question to answer about the police and the bailiff but they would have not been there if the boy had not committed an offence in the first place the blame lies with him not KeithB or anyone else keep your children in check.

[shell]

Re: Not my debt

Clever Clogs the post was about the Balliff not the police everyone makes mistakes even me LOL. But when the mist clears the fault is with the boy in question he broke the law why twist it yes maybe there is a question to answer about the police and the bailiff but they would have not been there if the boy had not committed an offence in the first place the blame lies with him not KeithB or anyone else keep your children in check.

Cheeky, maybe you should actually read the post. This lad is not KiethB's child. Also, when last have you tried to keep a 23 year old in check.

Basically what you are saying is that it is acceptable for baillifs (if that's what they were, as no id. was shown) are allowed to enter anyones property looking for someone that doesn't even live there, just because that someone happens to owe money? Even worse, you think it is acceptable for the police to arrest the owner of the property for objecting. Then allowing unknown thugs to enter the property and search it?

[teaboy2]

Re: Not my debt

Cheeky, maybe you should actually read the post. This lad is not KiethB's child. Also, when last have you tried to keep a 23 year old in check.

Basically what you are saying is that it is acceptable for baillifs (if that's what they were, as no id. was shown) are allowed to enter anyones property looking for someone that doesn't even live there, just because that someone happens to owe money? Even worse, you think it is acceptable for the police to arrest the owner of the property for objecting. Then allowing unknown thugs to enter the property and search it?

On top of what Shell said, there is no way of knowing whether KeithB's partners lad had committed any offense at all. It could just as well have been someone using a similar car to his with a cloned registration plate for all any of us know. Though unlikely i know, it is still possible, but my point is, it is wrong to jump to conculsions and start stating things as if they were a matter of fact when you have no evidence to back up such a statement. Regardless of whether the lad did or did not commited an offense is a deminis issue in this thread, as the thread is not about what the lad did or didn't do but about the way the bailiff and the police acted unlawfully. Whether the lad committed an offence or not, does not in anyway excuse the bailiff or the police for their own unlawful and likely illegal actions.

[bluebottle]

Re: Not my debt

I just cannot believe two police officers were so gullible as to be taken in by the crap these two muppets were spouting.

1. They refused to produce proof that they were bailiffs. That should have alerted the police officers to the fact these two muppets may have been distraction burglars.
2. They refused to produce a signed and sealed warrant. Without this, they have no lawful authority whatsoever.
3. If these two muppets were, in fact, bailiffs, their inability to produce lawful authority, means they had no business entering the OP's home and the OP was within his rights to stop them.
4. The alleged Breach of the Peace was caused by the muppet who tried to push past the OP, not the OP.
5. Was the arrest wrongful? You bet it was!
6. Is the police officer who arrested the OP a muppet? No. He's an even bigger muppet that the bailiff.
7. Does the OP have grounds for making a complaint to the Chief Constable of the force that covers his area? Yes, and he should address the complaint to the Chief Constable, in the first instance. If the police force offers to refer the matter to the IPCC, voluntarily, this is not unreasonable.
8. This incident does not warrant a Form 4 complaint against the muppets who claimed to be bailiffs. It does, however, warrant finding out who they are and which company they work for and making a formal complaint to the Ministry of Justice at cbregister@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk. In my considered judgement, it would be worth reporting the bailiff company to the OP's local Trading Standards Department and the OFT's Credit Fitness Team at enquiries@oft.gsi.gov.uk. Even if it it not serious enough to warrant immediate enforcement, it will be on record and give the OFT ammunition with which to justify revoking or refusing renewal of the bailiff company's Category F Debt Collection Licence. Do we know which bailiff company is involved by any chance?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Not my debt

Clever Clogs the post was about the Balliff not the police

It was actually about both.

However, pray do not let me distract you from the invaluable task being performed by you and countless more simians - bashing computer keyboards at random in the hope that, one day, the lost works of Shakespeare might emerge by chance.

[Guest]

Re: Not my debt

It was actually about both.

However, pray do not let me distract you from the invaluable task being performed by you and countless more simians - bashing computer keyboards at random in the hope that, one day, the lost works of Shakespeare might emerge by chance.

" bashing their keyboard" is that a euphemism? I have observed monkeys in Chester Zoo doing this if so, but i do not see how it would produce the works of the bard.

D

[bluebottle]

Re: Not my debt

Was the arrest lawful? Was it hell!
Can you be unarrested? Yes, you can. If you are arrested and then it is found you are innocent of any wrongdoing, the police have to go through the process of de-arresting you. If they do not, they are guilty of assault, unlawful detention and wrongful arrest.
Was the search legal? Not in the circumstances described. Certificated bailiffs do not have any right of entry, other than peaceable entry through an open door or window, or if permitted by the owner/occupier or by way of court order.
Can the bailiffs come back, break in and take property? No. They did not effect peaceable entry. Soliciting police officers to assist them in the way they did amounts to forcible entry and renders the bailiffs liable to a burglary charge and the police officers to charges of aiding and abetting them or being accessories to an offence.
Are there grounds for complaint? Yes. The police officers acted ultra vires (outside the law). The bailiffs acted illegally and they can be reported to the Ministry of Justice Bailiff Department.
Who to complaint to? In the first instance, the Chief Constable of the police force involved. Failing this, the IPPC. Alternatively, the Director-General of Crime & Policing at the Home Office.