Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

[pepsie]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

This is the document I used in a High Court case as evidence to the ownership....it was accepted and declared suffient to show the true owner.

purchasers address:
anywhere
anytown
post code

Fred Bloggs & Mary Mary

This document is to be seen as a binding agreement between the above named parties for the loan of a Mercedes xxx Registration number xxx xxx in that I xxx agree to loan the vehicle without cost or charge to Mr xxx of 123 xyz Anywhere, Anytown, with the proviso he keep the vehicle in good repair, arrange insurance and pay vehicle excise when due appertaining to the vehicle.


To enable him to make and continue to make without restraint all necessary arrangement for the above I agree to allow him to become the registered keeper to the vehicle while I remain the legal owner by purchase and the vehicle is to be returned without question if I so request it.


Signed xxxxxx xxxxxx Owner Witness to signature signed xxxxxxxxxxxxx datedxxx xxx

Dated xxx xxx


Signed xxxx xxxx Borrower Witness to signature signed xxxxxxxxxxxxx datedxxx xxx
Dated xxx xxx

[labman]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Just noticed you mention premises, if this is the case then you may have an uphill struggle

It is not inconceivable though that she may have premises and do mobile treatments as well.

As you will see from PT's thrad above, proving essential vehicle use as a tool of the trade is harder than most think.

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

To claim use of a vehicle for business use and thus exempt for seizure she will need to provide:
1 - proof of insurance for business use
2 - she must be the sole user
3 - be able to prove the vehicle is necessary to transport the tools & parts she need for her trade - for example if everything is just contained within a suitcase then this will fail as it can be argued she could travel on public transport, however if she needs to take treatment tables then that is another matter
4 - optional - she may need to provide proof of her travels to clients - a map showing where she needs to go
5 - optional - she may need testimonials from her clients

Just noticed you mention premises, if this is the case then you may have an uphill struggle

Once again, thanks all for your concern and ideas.

1. Insurance is currently SDP + commuting, not business use.
2. I am a named driver on the policy, could remove me no problem, I don't drive it much.
3. Would be difficult, her tools would fit in a large bag.
4&5. Not relevant

So, in conclusion we probably can't show that her car is a 'tool of trade'. The reason I'm so concerned about the car is that it is really the only asset of any value that she has. As I mentioned in my first post she declared herself bankrupt 5 years ago, and lost everything except her car (including her home). So I really don't want her to lose her car as well. As stated in my previous post she could sell the car to me (as far as I know it has not been levied), but we live about 3 hours travel away from each other so the car would be of no use to her if it were parked at my house.

I made a suggestion in a previous post that she could sell the car to me and provide me with a receipt, but remain as the registered keeper (on the V5C), but the concensus was that this would not stand up in a court of law. She has no receipt from when she bought the car, but I know the onus is on us to prove that she doesn't own it, not vice versa.

[labman]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

You can of course keep the car parked round the corner for the time being.

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

You can of course keep the car parked round the corner for the time being.

Its around a few corners

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

The problem with all the corners - I agree with this incidentally - is that the Bailiff may see getting to her business premises so she may need some extra corners in reserve.

[pepsie]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

I made a suggestion in a previous post that she could sell the car to me and provide me with a receipt, but remain as the registered keeper (on the V5C), but the concensus was that this would not stand up in a court of law. She has no receipt from when she bought the car, but I know the onus is on us to prove that she doesn't own it, not vice versa.[/quote]


Post #31 was a man who bought the car from his nephew then loaned the car back to him
and this was a copy of the agreement they made between them. It did hold up in Court as the sale had taken place prior to the bailiff performing his levy.

Pepsie

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Car is sorted, now belongs to me, V5C on its way to Swansea, insurance broker informed. I have Section 10, would that be sufficient to prove ownership (keepership?) until the new V5C arrives?

Next item on my list is to complain about the manner in which the Council has handled this. The debt is nearly 3 years old, my friend had forgotten / was not aware about it. First notification she had was a Bailiff's Notice of Attendance which did not specify any amount of money. This caused her a lot of stress. Surely the Council were obligated to send a copy of the current statement / bill to her first once they knew her new address. Can I complain to the Council about this?

Secondly, we need to put a payment plan to the Council ASAP. She will not be able to pay much (monthly income £700 + £150 housing benefits, rent £400, etc., she does not reach State Pension Age for another 8 months). I think she could realistically pay £10 per week, but that would mean that the debt would not be cleared for 8 years! What happens if we put a payment plan to the Council and they do not accept it? Does she then end up in Court?

Thanks again for any help. Beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel (we think!).

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Car is sorted, now belongs to me, V5C on its way to Swansea, insurance broker informed. I have Section 10, would that be sufficient to prove ownership (keepership?) until the new V5C arrives?

I assume you also have an Invoice stating this?

Next item on my list is to complain about the manner in which the Council has handled this. The debt is nearly 3 years old, my friend had forgotten / was not aware about it. First notification she had was a Bailiff's Notice of Attendance which did not specify any amount of money. This caused her a lot of stress. Surely the Council were obligated to send a copy of the current statement / bill to her first once they knew her new address. Can I complain to the Council about this?

You can try but believe it will fall on deaf ears as they may point you to the appropriate Regulations particularly Regulation 13 (2)
The Non-Domestic Rating (Collection and Enforcement) (Local Lists) Regulations 1989

Secondly, we need to put a payment plan to the Council ASAP. She will not be able to pay much (monthly income £700 + £150 housing benefits, rent £400, etc., she does not reach State Pension Age for another 8 months). I think she could realistically pay £10 per week, but that would mean that the debt would not be cleared for 8 years! What happens if we put a payment plan to the Council and they do not accept it? Does she then end up in Court?

The Council will turn this down out of hand as it will take too long to discharge. Better paid to them direct via online banking or Council website paying a regular amount each time - £10 evry Thursday for example - this then shows a payment history which they would find hard to argue with should they then decide to try and take it further.

Thanks again for any help. Beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel (we think!).

PT
PT

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

OK. Now at the stage where we need to put together a payment plan. I really appreciate all the help you have given so far, but just need some help with this last bit:

To recap, she will not be able to pay much (monthly income £700 + £150 housing benefits, rent £400, etc., she does not reach State Pension Age for another 8 months). I think she could realistically pay £10 per week, but that would mean that the debt would not be cleared for 8 years!

So, questions:

What happens if we put a payment plan to the Council and they do not accept it?

Does she then end up in Court (or worse) if she can only pay (say) £10 per week?

Is it worth making token payments as ploddertom suggests (starting this week?) in order to establish that she is paying something?

As the total value of her possessions is maybe one hundred pounds and the room where she lives is furnished by the landlord what other steps can the Council / Bailiffs take to recover the money?

Many thanks for any help you can give.

[wales01man]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Someone correct me if im wrong but it seems from reading about this lady that she has nothing of value that the baliffs or council can recover to pay the debt and fees can she not contact a solicitor for advice to stop all this action abd if all that has been stated on here can proven take action against the council she has a councillor and a mp representing her so they should help/
Weseem to live in a sick society where council bully boys and their bailiffs prey on the weak and vulnerable we need someone to stand up tu them.
i was chased by a so called hardman baliff about a commercial debt wnen i told him to leave in no uncertain terms he scarpered i tried to phone 2 minutes later on his mobile he answered then swithed it off for at least the next 2 hours never came back we need more people to refuse to have anything to do with these threatening thugs with no power and the bully boy councils that employ them im in debt and there is no way i can ever pay it back so like this lady my situation is i cant pay so why give her so much grief ?

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

I wrote the letter as suggested by Labman asking for a breakdown of the Bailiff's fees. Received this in reply:

'With reference to the above letter the contents of which have been noted.

I regret to inform you, however, that your file has been passed to the bailiff for further action.

All offers of settlement should now be made directly to Mr H********, tel 07971 ******.'

Advice on next step please!

Also, we are considering paying a (token) amount of money direct to the Council today or tomorrow by debit card, followed by an email to them suggesting a payment plan. Is this a good idea?

[wales01man]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

I have read this thread has it has developed and for me one question arise from the last post the reply from the council passing it on to the baliff and refusing to deal with her is this correct or can she refuse to deal with the baliffs as she feels threatened by them?

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

I wrote the letter as suggested by Labman asking for a breakdown of the Bailiff's fees. Received this in reply:

'With reference to the above letter the contents of which have been noted.

I regret to inform you, however, that your file has been passed to the bailiff for further action.

All offers of settlement should now be made directly to Mr H********, tel 07971 ******.'

Advice on next step please!

Also, we are considering paying a (token) amount of money direct to the Council today or tomorrow by debit card, followed by an email to them suggesting a payment plan. Is this a good idea?

Regardless of what that says they still have to comply with your request and you will need to remind them of their obligations.

As for the way forward, just pay the Council as said previously. You do not have to enter into any communication with the rights or wrongs of this and certainly do not have to suggest a payment plan, this will become self evident from payments made - but they they must be regular.

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Thanks for replying.

Will send the letter again and see what happens.

Will talk to my friend about making a payment online to the Council.