Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

[Guest]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Many thanks again for the replies.

Sorry for asking (probably!) obvious questions (my brain is still a bit scrambled by all of this). If, for example, she was to sell the car to me (I am already a named driver on the insurance), but she was to remain the registered keeper, would we still need to do anything about the V5C? Also, if she sold the car, does she have to sell at a genuine market price?

Unless the bailiff has siezed it, then its still hers to dispose. She can transfer the registered keeper over to you.

I'm guessing that a signed receipt would be sufficient as proof of sale?

You dont need one.

Thanks for the pro-forma letter regarding 'vulnerable persons'. Could we use the letter without the paragraph relating to the doctor's declaration?

Yes, you can modify it as you please but its not a pro-forma letter.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

I endorse what Happy Contrails says in respect of your friend's car. It is imperative that ownership is transferred to you. That way, the bailiff cannot seize it. If he/she tries to, they commit the offence of Theft or Attempted Theft, contrary to Section 1, Theft Act 1968, or Fraud by False Representation, contrary to Section 2(1), Fraud Act 2006, depending on their words and actions at the time. As I am sure Happy Contrails will confirm, bailiffs are lying scumbags who will say ANYTHING to get hold of money or possessions or gain entry to property.

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Thanks again for replies.

I understand that the car is a priority. She has parked it away from her home. The intention is that I would become the owner, but that she would remain the registered keeper (and so liable for insurance, excise etc.). She also has a parking permit where she lives which requires that her's is the name on the V5.

I was just thinking that if she gave me a receipt for the sale it would make it easier to prove that I am the owner of the car?

I hoping to get to the point, by the end of today, where I have a list of actions. Unfortunately today is also my niece's 18th birthday, so maybe difficult to find enough time. Also brain is still a bit scrambled by all this. If I put up a draft action list could some kind soul check it for me?

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Action List

Organise sale of car to me, get receipt for this signed and dated by her. Should I write to the Bailiffs telling them that the car she uses on a daily basis belongs to me, not her?

Write to council with a proposed payment plan, and asking them to take the debt back from the Bailiffs.

Write (again) to Council and Bailiffs regarding has vulnerable status. I'm still not sure how to escalate this as they both ignroed my previous letters.

Write to Bailiffs asking for justification their £285.00 fee for a single visit.

Have I forgotten anything? I am so very grateful for all your help.

[Guest]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Write (again) to Council and Bailiffs regarding has vulnerable status. I'm still not sure how to escalate this as they both ignroed my previous letters.

When you get your reply, you contact the Local Government Ombudsman and ask they intervene.

Write to Bailiffs asking for justification their £285.00 fee for a single visit.

Dont bother, only cc bailiffs in your correspondence with the council.

I was just thinking that if she gave me a receipt for the sale it would make it easier to prove that I am the owner of the car?

Its been tried, it doesnt stand up in court.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Action List

Organise sale of car to me, get receipt for this signed and dated by her. Should I write to the Bailiffs telling them that the car she uses on a daily basis belongs to me, not her?

Write to council with a proposed payment plan, and asking them to take the debt back from the Bailiffs.

Write (again) to Council and Bailiffs regarding has vulnerable status. I'm still not sure how to escalate this as they both ignroed my previous letters.

Write to Bailiffs asking for justification their £285.00 fee for a single visit.

Have I forgotten anything? I am so very grateful for all your help.

First and foremost, what you appear to be proposing would not prevent the bailiff seizing the car. Your name needs to be on the V5C as the registered owner/keeper for the bailiff to be prevented from seizing the vehicle. If you go along the path you are proposing, they can seize the vehicle legitimately. If your name is on the V5C they cannot, because they have to prove it is your friend's property. If they can't and the V5C and DVLA records show you as being the registered owner/keeper, the bailiff is in serious trouble and could be arrested and charged with Theft or Attempted Theft, whichever the case may be. I am a retired policeman and am using my experience and knowledge.

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

First and foremost, what you appear to be proposing would not prevent the bailiff seizing the car. Your name needs to be on the V5C as the registered owner/keeper for the bailiff to be prevented from seizing the vehicle. If you go along the path you are proposing, they can seize the vehicle legitimately. If your name is on the V5C they cannot, because they have to prove it is your friend's property. If they can't and the V5C and DVLA records show you as being the registered owner/keeper, the bailiff is in serious trouble and could be arrested and charged with Theft or Attempted Theft, whichever the case may be. I am a retired policeman and am using my experience and knowledge.

Thanks for replying.

I realise that I have a lack of understanding here, and that from your previous occupation you have much more experience and knowledge than I. However, I thought the V5C was not proof of ownership, indeed the new red V5C has this fact in large print on the front. If my name has to go on the V5C then that will have to happen, but it will mean that my friend can no longer get a parking permit for where she lives. All we want to do is change the owner of the car, leaving her as the keeper and therefore responsible for insurance, excise etc. and able to obtain a Council Parking Permit. I would pay her for the car, which would then belong to me, and she would give me a receipt for my money. Why does this not work? (Sorry if I'm being dense, this stuff scrambles your brain!)

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Sorry, I'm asking for clarification about the car again.

Currently she owns it (although she has no paperwork / receipt that proves she bought it). She is the registered keeper, her name is on the V5C (she just got the new red one), she pays the insurance (on which I am a named driver) monthly by DD, she pays the excise (currently paid until end 2012). She has a local Council parking permit which she obtained by proving that she is the registered keeper of the car by producing her V5C. This permit has to be renewed by the end of this month, for any period from 3 months to 1 year.

She lives in North London, I live in Kent.

I hope that all you very helpful people can accept that my brain is a bit scrambled by what has happened and that I would appreciate detailed suggestions as to what to do. If I buy the car from her and claim that I am the registered keeper and that the car is kept with me in Kent then either that would not be true (if the car was still kept in London, so invalidating the insurance) or the car would be of no use to my friend (if the car was kept in Kent, some 3 hours by public transport from where she lives). Also if I claim to be the registered keeper I become liable for insurance, excise etc. which I possibly can't afford.

As an alternative approach, my friend works on a self-employed basis. She currrently has only one client, although previously she has had more than this. She uses the car to travel to this client. Does this make the car a 'tool of her trade' and so non-seizable, and if so do we inform the Council or the Bailiff about this?

Sorry to keep pestering you about this, but the car is now the only short-term issue left to resolve. If anyone can help we would really appreciate it! Your help so far has been invaluable.

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

What type of business does she run?

[labman]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Apologies, I'm coming very late to this. Have you phoned the council to ask the exact amount owed? If not, you need to.

You need to send this to the bailiffs:

Dear Sir,



Your Ref: abc123

With reference to the above account, can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:
a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
b - the reason for the fee.
c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.
e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.


Yours faithfully,


(Sign with a different signature to normal)




Also write to, or e-mail the Head of Revenues at the relevant council, pointing out your friend's vulnerabilities, and stating that as the bailiff has imposed unlawful fees, please would the council take back the debt.



We are not expecting the Head of Revenues to do anything other than back up the bailiffs at this stage - don't worry. Post up when all this is done.



Please could you also answer Ploddertom's question.

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

What type of business does she run?

She works as a self-employed beauty therapist, previously in three premises, now only in one as the other two have closed down. She does not employ anyone.

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Apologies, I'm coming very late to this. Have you phoned the council to ask the exact amount owed? If not, you need to.

You need to send this to the bailiffs:

Dear Sir,



Your Ref: abc123

With reference to the above account, can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:
a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
b - the reason for the fee.
c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.
e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.


Yours faithfully,


(Sign with a different signature to normal)




Also write to, or e-mail the Head of Revenues at the relevant council, pointing out your friend's vulnerabilities, and stating that as the bailiff has imposed unlawful fees, please would the council take back the debt.



We are not expecting the Head of Revenues to do anything other than back up the bailiffs at this stage - don't worry. Post up when all this is done.



Please could you also answer Ploddertom's question.

Many thanks for replying.

We have spoken to the Council, they have confirmed the amount owed to them and provided paperwork to back this up.

I will write to the Bailiffs today as you suggest.

I will write to the Council today as you suggest.

I have answered Podderton's question in the post above.

Once again, thanks for helping.

[labman]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Thank you. Once we have the breakdown from the bailiffs, we can then identify what unlawful charges have been made, remove these and ask the council to take it back.

By then, hopefully you'll have received a reply from the Head of Revenues either agreeing to take the debt back (unlikely, but possible), or more likely condoning the overcharging which plays nicely into our hands.

[ThreeYearsAndCounting]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

Letter sent to Council:

Your ref: xxxxxxx

I have written to you previously but have not received a reply. I am elderly and unable to read or write English (a friend has helped me with this letter). As such I am a ‘vulnerable person’ under National Standards for Enforcement Agents (Jan 2012) guidelines. I would therefore ask you to instruct your Bailiff not to visit me again as such a visit would cause me undue stress.

Your Bailiff has told my friend that his Company’s fees so far are £285.00. We have requested written confirmation of this figure. As this would appear to relate to only one visit (on 1st February 2012) for which the charge should be £24.50 this would appear to be illegal charging by you Bailiff. I would therefore ask that you take the debt back from the Bailiff with immediate effect.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Letter sent to Bailiffs as per Labman's post above.

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiffs chasing Business Rates arrears

She works as a self-employed beauty therapist, previously in three premises, now only in one as the other two have closed down. She does not employ anyone.

To claim use of a vehicle for business use and thus exempt for seizure she will need to provide:
1 - proof of insurance for business use
2 - she must be the sole user
3 - be able to prove the vehicle is necessary to transport the tools & parts she need for her trade - for example if everything is just contained within a suitcase then this will fail as it can be argued she could travel on public transport, however if she needs to take treatment tables then that is another matter
4 - optional - she may need to provide proof of her travels to clients - a map showing where she needs to go
5 - optional - she may need testimonials from her clients

Just noticed you mention premises, if this is the case then you may have an uphill struggle