JBW Group bailiff problems

[CleverClogs]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

I have removed his name from the second image.

Thank you. I saved the original version and used the data therein to look in the Bailiff Register; you will doubtless have noted that the name given on the warrant does not quite match that on the Register. Has Mr Gruesomingh changed his name?

Forgive me for asking stupid questions, but what is a SAR and how would it benefit me?

It is a Subject Access Request, made under section 7 (link) of the Data Protection Act 1998 and it doesn't really apply in your case, as Mr Gruesome (or Gruesomingh) left you a schedule of the charges made and the fibs he made on which they were based.

He claimed to have visited on 07/12/2011 and, for that visit, he charged you £57 + VAT. On 16/12.2011, he charged not only for "attendance to remove" but also a "levy fee" - £175 and £60 + VAT respectively. As he plainly could not do both at the same time, the charge for "attendance to remove" was improperly made and this may be fraud - though you'll have one hell of a job getting any plod to act on it.

You might have a case for getting the monies charged back by the bank(s).

As for the fact that JBW hasn't told the MOJ that Mr.Grusome is working for them. Do I have any leverage here?

Yes and no; it is up to Mr Gruesome/Gruesomingh/Whatever-his-name-is-this-week to tell the MOJ, as his change of name and change of employer both make his certificate invalid.

There was no damage to the glass as far as I can tell, however I feel that he should have removed it, since he put it there.

I agree.

Even affixing a notice that can easily be removed has been held to be criminal damage - if one can get the plods to act on it.

[fchristensen]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Thanks CleverClogs,

He said he made a visit while we were on holiday in Germany. Obviously our (heavy wood 7 point lock) door was locked at the time and there is no way he could have gained entry. Based on that and what you have told me, he was not within his rights to charge his levy and / or attendance to remove.

I'm a bit stuck in terms of what I should do next. I suppose I should send JBW the evidence of his ID (last name wrong), incorrect charges and picture of the note being washed away from my car and see what they have to say. However, based on most people's dealings with these thugs i'm unlikely to get a reply.

One thing is certain, I'm not going to give up and I WILL get my money back one way or another.

Any further advice is greatly appreciated and thanks again.

Kind regards,
Fred

[CleverClogs]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Thank you for the picture of Mr Gormless Gruesome/Gruesomingh - he does rather look like one might expect, right to the way there's a little ridge of hair on the top of his head which suggests a defect when he was moulded.

The address on his certificate is indeed that used by Newlyns.

[labman]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Excellent news.

You can now do a few things:

1. Complain to JBW that they are using illegal, uncertficated bailiffs.

Start by sending a SAR:

Bailiff - SAR - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

This will give you the written evidence you need to substantiate your complaint. They have 40 days in which to respond. This is 40 calendar days, so the fact that there are several Bank Holidays coming up makes no difference whatsoever to the 40 day deadline.

Then follow the company's own Complaints Procedure. Seek compensation for the distress caused by this illegal levy and state that you will pursue the matter either through the certificating County Court or through the Magistrates' Court should they not address your complaint satisfactorily.

This route should normally be exhausted before making a Form 4 complaint, which is only used if the internal process does not give you a satisfactory resolution.

2. Once you receive all the written evidence back from the SAR, simultaneously complain to the people who appointed the bailiffs (presumably TfL) that JBW are using uncertificated bailiffs (see final paragraph). Enclose copies of the information from the SAR and your own evidence. State that this makes the levy invalid as it was carried out by an illegal bailiff. Seek compensation for the distress caused by this illegal levy and state that you will pursue the matter either through the certificating County Court or through the Magistrates' Court should they not address your complaint satisfactorily.


3. Only to be used if the above do not give a satisfactory resolution. Complete a Form 4 Complaint sending copies of all supporting evidence to the court where this bailiff was originally certificated.

Form 4 can be found at bottom of this thread:

Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

The court must then send written details to the bailiff who must reply in writing within 14 days. A hearing will then be arranged before a Circuit Judge. You can apply to have this moved to your local county court. After the hearing, if the complaint is upheld the Judge may cancel the certificate and/or may order that the £10000 security bond be forfeited either wholly or partly to compensate you, to cover any costs and expenses you may have incurred and also to cover the court costs, expenses and fees.

The losing party will normally be found liable for the other side's legal costs, which can be thousands of pounds. Due to overuse this has often been the person making the complaint so a Form 4 should only be used in cases of grave abuse by a bailiff.

Also, if you choose to follow this route, you are strongly advised to examine the papers received from the court - if a hearing is immediately arranged before the bailiff has even responded to the complaint, you'll need to contact the court office to point out that this is not what the Distress for Rent Rules 1988 say, and if needs be complain to the Court Manager.

In the meantime, it would be a good idea to write to the body who appointed the bailiffs outlining what is going to happen - you are awaiting the results of a SAR and will be submitting a formal complaint having discovered from the Ministry of Justice that they have appointed an uncertificated bailiff and are vicariously liable with JBW for this. In the meantime you suggest that all action be suspended pending the outcome of your complaint.

[fchristensen]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Hi Labman,

First of all, I would like to thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed message. I honestly don't know what I would have done without the guidance that I have been given by every contributor on this forum. This gives me hope and I now feel obliged to see this through to the end, hopefully that will go a little way to saying thanks for all the help you have given me. Once this episode is finished, I will definitely stick around to try and help other members who are dealing with the same problems.

Now, let me see if I have understood correctly:

1. Send a SAR to JBW and wait up to 40 days for a reply. While waiting, compile evidence and a formal complaint letter and send this to them using their complaints method.

Question: Do I threaten with legal action at this point?

2. Once I have received the information requested from my SAR, also complain to TFL using the same method as above (depending on question 1).

3. If all else fails, consider filling out a Form 4.

I know I have considerably shortened your post, but will go through it meticulously while creating my complaint letter to make sure I have included every possible angle.

Do you mind if I post my complaint letter here before sending? I'm not that good at writing formal letters (no experience).

Again, I can't thank you enough.

Kind regards,
Fred

[labman]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Yes - it is almost impossible to find out exactly how to complain about an uncertificated bailiff, so I've done my best to put together what I believe to be the right route - collect evidence, complain with a vengeance!

I forgot to mention you can also complain to JBW's professional associations. They are members of ACEA:

Contact

and

CIVEA - Civil Enforcement Association

In both cases click on the Complaints tab and follow instructions.

No problems with you posting up your letter once you get to that stage.

Don't forget to contact the body who instructed the bailiffs suggesting they cease all enforcement immediately pending the outcome of the complaint.

Also do not threaten legal action unless you're willing to carry out the threat and if necessary lose!

[ploddertom]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Sorry had a very busy day yesterday. To find out about the Certificate he holds you now need to ring the Court he was Certificated at and ask them which employer he worked under on the date he says he visited, You should also ask if he has had a change of employer and the date that took effect.

[labman]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Sorry had a very busy day yesterday. To find out about the Certificate he holds you now need to ring the Court he was Certificated at and ask them which employer he worked under on the date he says he visited, You should also ask if he has had a change of employer and the date that took effect.

Sorry PT - me on my learning curve again! I thought any changes had to be notified immediately to the MoJ, so if the MoJ still have the bailiff as working for Newlyns, I would have thought that was conclusive evidence.

How long does it take the certificating court to notify the MoJ?

Thanks!

[CleverClogs]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Sorry had a very busy day yesterday. To find out about the Certificate he holds you now need to ring the Court he was Certificated at and ask them which employer he worked under on the date he says he visited, You should also ask if he has had a change of employer and the date that took effect.

Never mind his change of employer - what about his apparent change of name?

[ploddertom]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Sorry PT - me on my learning curve again! I thought any changes had to be notified immediately to the MoJ, so if the MoJ still have the bailiff as working for Newlyns, I would have thought that was conclusive evidence.

How long does it take the certificating court to notify the MoJ?

Thanks!

It's a multi stage process finding out all the info you need:
A view of the actual certificate he holds - in this case iut revealed a diffing company
A search of the MOJ online register - which we know is not always 100% accurate
A phone call to the MOJ team asking for said info - which in this case has resulted in the same info being released
A call to the Certificating Court asking when any change may have taken place - can;t remember exactly when info from the Court is forwarded - may only be quarterly - will try and look it up later.

Not often does one have to ring the actual Court particularly from memory when the current Certificate is so recent!

[labman]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

The MOJ reckons their records should be up to date as I've just phoned them, but then go on to state there's no harm checking with the certificating court as Ploddertom has suggested. It doesn't fill you with confidence in the MOJ does it?

I was however given the e-mail address of the man who is in charge of the record of certificated bailiffs and I thought it worth sharing before I lose it:

louis.martin@justice.gsi.gov.uk

[CleverClogs]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

The MOJ reckons their records should be up to date as I've just phoned them, but then go on to state there's no harm checking with the certificating court as Ploddertom has suggested. It doesn't fill you with confidence in the MOJ does it?

Not really, but the problem may lie with the courts which do not always bother to keep the MOJ updated with any changes.

[ploddertom]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Trying to keep the Bailiff Register up to date is down to how long it takes the Certificating Court to notify the MOJ. I suppose in theory it should be done on a daily basis but I note County Courts have a duty to do a cleansing exercise of data just twice a year.

[CleverClogs]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

Trying to keep the Bailiff Register up to date is down to how long it takes the Certificating Court to notify the MOJ. I suppose in theory it should be done on a daily basis but I note County Courts have a duty to do a cleansing exercise of data just twice a year.

If one report I have read recently - link - is any guide, those doing the data cleansing should scrub much harder!

[ploddertom]

Re: JBW Group bailiff problems

If one report I have read recently - link - is any guide, those doing the data cleansing should scrub much harder!

I do agree that we need more scrubbers in the Courts!