That referendum ...

[LowEbb]

Re: That referendum ...

By the way -is it possible to disagree with someone without suggesting they are stupid? I do not agree with many of the people on here and they do not agree with me but I do not think they are stupid and neither am I.

Ditto :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[meellis]

Re: That referendum ...

Sorry Berti, if you re-read my post you will realise I wasn't making an argument. Even Boris was giving Cameron plaudits for mending the economy today, I said that some haven't felt the effect of this mended economy yet ( ie they still feel like they are in recession) so won't feel any different. If you feel like you are still in recession are you going to notice that much which I believe is what you are trying to say. I know only to well how people have suffered having ended up bankrupt and fighting repossession and I also can say I haven't noticed this mended and growing economy that the government have been telling everyone they have achieved. I voted out for reasons I believe but I do feel that a lot of people voted on mis-guided spin when they weren't given facts. In my opinion Cameron decided to have the referendum to win votes and go down in history as the person who put the in-out debate to bed because he was convinced he knew the people and they wouldn't be stupid enough to or fired up enough to vote either at all or for exit and he was wrong. Personally I believe if any of the two sides had given a truly convincing reason for their cause then the result wouldn't have been so close. There wasn't a truly convincing argument for exit because it is so full of unknown's as we are now finding out but stay spent a lot of time peddling the fortunes of doom. Maybe if they had spent more time placing real, tangible and provable facts in front of people in a way they could be understood we would be in a different position now but they didn't. Because of all the unknowns we could look back at this in the future as either the best thing that ever happened or the biggest mistake ever but one thing is for certain and that is we are going to have to look back on it now.

[LowEbb]

Re: That referendum ...

On a lighter note ........ wonder if we will get another bank holiday! :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Guest]

Re: That referendum ...

Sorry I wasn't calling anyone stupid just that the comment sounded stupid. If you haven't recovered from the last recession a new one might just finish uou off.
I remember several recessions including the one caused by the oil crisis of 73.

I accept we live in democracy but my point was if there is no cut off point St the older end, why is there one St the younger. Yes I know a big debate and I do think there needs to be a minimum age but feel sorry for the young who.will have to reap what we have sown. The problem with some of the older people is that they remember through rose tinted specs so forget if it weren't for getting ourselves in hock to the yanks we wouldn't have recovered also the relatively high unemployment by the standards of the times.

I do think though that the arguments given.by some people really are stupid, I don't mean in here. Reasons I have heard. The EU caused Mars bars to shrink. The EU caused rover to be bought by the Chinese. These things are called capitalism and are not caused by the EU although the EU does propagate it. Leaving though won't change it

[Guest]

Re: That referendum ...

We didn't have the facts so most people voted according to their social perspective.

The referendum was a dumb idea from the start. The general public were the least informed group yet it was left to us to decide. Nobody really knew the key facts or what all the knock on effects would or are going to be.

It was democracy for the sake of it.

I have to concur with this, people voted without having a clue what they were voting for, their vote was based on their own perception of things rather than solid facts. The consequences were not spelled out in any detail, even now no-one knows how the whole thing will be implemented. How can you vote without knowing what will follow? Now the government, whoever they may be, will be able to blame it all on the voters. "You had a choice" they will say.

[Guest]

Re: That referendum ...

Sorry I wasn't calling anyone stupid just that the comment sounded stupid. If you haven't recovered from the last recession a new one might just finish uou off.
I remember several recessions including the one caused by the oil crisis of 73.

I accept we live in democracy but my point was if there is no cut off point St the older end, why is there one St the younger. Yes I know a big debate and I do think there needs to be a minimum age but feel sorry for the young who.will have to reap what we have sown. The problem with some of the older people is that they remember through rose tinted specs so forget if it weren't for getting ourselves in hock to the yanks we wouldn't have recovered also the relatively high unemployment by the standards of the times.

Not so much a matter of age but being well informed (or not). Would teenagers really know what it will mean for them to leave the EU when they are still in school? At that age, they tend to follow the herd, if their friends were going to vote leave they would too. The EU has good and bad points but no-one told us what it would really mean for us.

[pt2537]

Re: That referendum ...

Weve taken back control they say..........but have we? did we ever lose it? no, is the answer, parliament retained its sovereignty at all times.

But we do know Farage was a liar, he confirmed this morning there is no£350 mill per week for the NHS. Truth is, the mistake was his mum and dad not being familiar with Durex

Anyway, so now we can talk fact, lets talk a few

Fact: the £ crashed to its lowest since 1985 (As predicted)
Fact: Pensions devalued 31%
Fact: Cunard are relocating their operations to Hamburg, the major financial institutions have now implemented exit strategy
Fact: We will not be allowed to retain membership of the EEA and the single market
Fact: Three people i know in three different areas of employment today have been given notice of consultation for redundancy, this will be a common theme.
Fact: Stock markets closed over 7% down


But hey we got back something we never lost.

Any what about those laws written by unelected people? Just think about civil servants for a second, they write UK Laws but are they elected? nope

Oh and while were on the subject, those bank charges challenges that were getting off the ground? Well may as well throw them in the bin cos they arent runners any longer.

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...

The EU CAUSED MARS BARS TO SHRINK!
Now this is the sort of thing that has landed us in this mess. The WHO advised that due to obesity bars like this should be smaller and the manufacturers rubbed their hands together and used this along with a shortage of Cocoa to skimp on ingredients and make more profit. There was no EU legislation reducing the size of the bars only advice. We have believed all the rumours and media sensations and came to the conclusion we were bullied by the EU.

[Crazy council]

Re: That referendum ...

that petition needs signing by EVERYONE ASAP that i in post 50

Realisticly, needs 17mill votes.. 300k plus atm.....

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

[meellis]

Re: That referendum ...

There are a lot of stupid arguments around now especially with the amount of spin placed upon them. It seems that highlighting stupid, off the cuff or comical remarks can seriously discredit the point that was set out to be made. Two things I have heard today on un-related radio programmes have made me consider the argument over the age of voters but mainly the bigger picture that has affected the whole referendum. On local radio there was an interview with an 80 year old ex soldier who was in tears saying we have eventually got Britain back from the grips of Germany which a lot of his friends and family had given their lives in wars to stop happening. On another programme they were discussing the lower turn out of younger voters and the affects of the older voter. The thing is , young or old, whether you voted for sound reasons or pure sentiment. Nobody should ever be allowed to forget the sacrifices made by people for this country and nobody should need to do it in the future but was the elderly soldiers reason for voting out a sound reason for the life his children, grand children and future generations might be saddled with. Saying that though is their any evidence that many middle aged or younger voters were are actually placing there vote on sound reasoned facts not sentimental or mis informed facts.

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...

On a lighter note ........ wonder if we will get another bank holiday! :tinysmile_twink_t2:

If we do get one what should we call it? Struggling to find a name without swearing. Exodus day perhaps?

[pt2537]

Re: That referendum ...

oh and btw, in case you all missed this, our credit rating was also downgraded lower than its ever been. So the cost of borrowing has now gone through the roof tooooooo

And our national debt sits at £1.5 Trillion, doubled by Osbourne, so we have no money to protect the economy if it suffers a shock, and even better the Bank of England is looking at 0% interest, so savings and investments will return nowt too.

Just rejoice at the news.

- - - Updated - - -

cant wait to see what happens to the boarder controls at the channel tunnel..................

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...

There are a lot of stupid arguments around now especially with the amount of spin placed upon them. It seems that highlighting stupid, off the cuff or comical remarks can seriously discredit the point that was set out to be made. Two things I have heard today on un-related radio programmes have made me consider the argument over the age of voters but mainly the bigger picture that has affected the whole referendum. On local radio there was an interview with an 80 year old ex soldier who was in tears saying we have eventually got Britain back from the grips of Germany which a lot of his friends and family had given their lives in wars to stop happening. On another programme they were discussing the lower turn out of younger voters and the affects of the older voter. The thing is , young or old, whether you voted for sound reasons or pure sentiment. Nobody should ever be allowed to forget the sacrifices made by people for this country and nobody should need to do it in the future but was the elderly soldiers reason for voting out a sound reason for the life his children, grand children and future generations might be saddled with. Saying that though is their any evidence that many middle aged or younger voters were are actually placing there vote on sound reasoned facts not sentimental or mis informed facts.

Now that is a good point! As I said before we need to respect older peoples opinions but to use the phrase ‘back from the grips of Germany’ is ridiculous!
There has been so much dramatising and many people have made the result sound like we had just been liberated from Genghis Khan.

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

If we do get one what should we call it? Struggling to find a name without swearing. Exodus day perhaps?

Divided UK day

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...

Well when Boris started speaking this morning we had the 5^th strongest economy -by the time he finished we had gone to 6^th and it was not a long speech!