Neighbor refusing access to their land

[wales01man]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Amethyst
from experience I can tellyou its even worse working on a property with neighbours like that. been there got the tee shirt have known of instances where builders have not been to polite with neighbours one even put one on a neighbour not advised but even a saint might have considered doing it

[Openlaw15]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

I think the Occupier liability act's are for people attending your property and ensuring your building isn't a danger to others and so on rather than you accessing other others property - although could apply in OP's favour actually if the windows are in danger of ''falling out'' and causing injury or damaging other's property etc as he'd have an obligation to fix them which would assist in the access order app.

Really the simplest way would be to do it from inside however if the windows are only accessible from outside via neighbours garden there could still be an issue as ref above when removing the old windows ( dropping hazard etc)

Must be horrid to have neighbours like that

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Openlaw You have misunderstood the problem and the requirements completely.

The Op referred to safety considerations so i told them they have certain duties as an occupier to others.

[stressederic]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Most work can be done from inside including removal of existing windows. It's just the making up/sealing that needs to be done on outside.

It seems its solicitor ping pong letters at the minute. I guess thats how they make their money...
So if I send a letter with all their requirements. Still not sure how a risk assessment is done without having access to the area!!!? But if I do all that should I add in to the letter any further delays will result in me taking court action where I will seek to claim legal costs against them?

Or do I wait see what they say next and if it's another delay tactic simply not respond and have a court order served to them?it really

It really is awful having neighbours like this...surely this affects my human rights??...I have to live in a house which has black mold because my neighbours won't allow me to have root cause fixed.

[Amethyst]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Good point though sounds like there's a boundary line between the wall and the garden, presumably not enough space for a ladder at a safe angle though - it is tricky to know from the info given so far - I'd guess there would be issue for accessing to maintain gutters etc too. Good idea to check the deeds ( though that could open up a whole host of new issues - I once had an 'altercation' with a neighbour who suddenly decided she owned my back garden and I had no access rights across the land whatsoever - I evidenced my argument with the original deeds and she went batshit lol )

[stressederic]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

It sounds like a quasi easement where there is no separate dominant tenement and servient tenement. They both have land rights but they have to share those rights or make it formal. I would check the property register to see if there are easements registered there. If there is it's a legal right to use their own land respectively, subject to giving neighbour notice of course. A person cannot be restricted from using their own land even if it does overlap another's.

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The Op referred to safety considerations so i told them they have certain duties as an occupier to others.

The tp1 states I have a right to access retained land as long as reasonable written notice is given. I've done that.

[stressederic]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

It sounds like a quasi easement where there is no separate dominant tenement and servient tenement. They both have land rights but they have to share those rights or make it formal. I would check the property register to see if there are easements registered there. If there is it's a legal right to use their own land respectively, subject to giving neighbour notice of course. A person cannot be restricted from using their own land even if it does overlap another's.

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The Op referred to safety considerations so i told them they have certain duties as an occupier to others.

Good point though sounds like there's a boundary line between the wall and the garden, presumably not enough space for a ladder at a safe angle though - it is tricky to know from the info given so far - I'd guess there would be issue for accessing to maintain gutters etc too. Good idea to check the deeds ( though that could open up a whole host of new issues - I once had an 'altercation' with a neighbour who suddenly decided she owned my back garden and I had no access rights across the land whatsoever - I evidenced my argument with the original deeds and she went batshit lol )

There is a dividing fence line. From my garden it's too far to reach around the wall to do work correctly.

[Amethyst]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Most work can be done from inside including removal of existing windows. It's just the making up/sealing that needs to be done on outside.

It seems its solicitor ping pong letters at the minute. I guess thats how they make their money...
So if I send a letter with all their requirements. Still not sure how a risk assessment is done without having access to the area!!!? But if I do all that should I add in to the letter any further delays will result in me taking court action where I will seek to claim legal costs against them?

Or do I wait see what they say next and if it's another delay tactic simply not respond and have a court order served to them?it really

It really is awful having neighbours like this...surely this affects my human rights??...I have to live in a house which has black mold because my neighbours won't allow me to have root cause fixed.

You would be able to reclaim your costs from the neighbours if you had the access granted I believe, however only if you did everything you could to sort it out before resorting to court action.

I understand the issue with the mould and kids - can really affect their health if its in a sleeping room - not sure about human rights though as there are alternatives available ( that horrible internal secondary glazing, ventilation etc ).

If it will just be to do the sealing and finishing it should only be a few hours work shouldn't it rather than four days ?


The risk assessments don't really have that much to do with an individual property, safe use of ladder, safe use of carrying tool;s, harnessing and so on and they should already have that for H&S regs - have you asked the window guys about it ? that should probably be your next step ( I do get you're worried about the cost of the work increasing due to the extra hassle for the workers but I'd expect they've been through this kind of thing before - worth a chat with them before spending more on solicitors ?)

[Openlaw15]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

You would be able to reclaim your costs from the neighbours if you had the access granted I believe, however only if you did everything you could to sort it out before resorting to court action.

I understand the issue with the mould and kids - can really affect their health if its in a sleeping room - not sure about human rights though as there are alternatives available ( that horrible internal secondary glazing, ventilation etc ).

If it will just be to do the sealing and finishing it should only be a few hours work shouldn't it rather than four days ?


The risk assessments don't really have that much to do with an individual property, safe use of ladder, safe use of carrying tool;s, harnessing and so on - have you asked the window guys about it ? that should probably be your next step ( I do get you're worried about the cost of the work increasing due to the extra hassle for the workers but I'd expect they've been through this kind of thing before - worth a chat with them before spending more on solicitors ?)

The solicitor wants to make sure that the contractors are au fait with health and safety law, reasonable protection in place, otherwise the neighbour's solicitor will sue them under their own liability insurance or the OP directly if there are any personal injuries or losses (owed because breach of duty). Why else would you need risk assessment (obligations) this is what tort is, whether an employer's environment or an occupier's land where there's blame, there's a claim.

[Crazy council]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Is there any lintle, roof or gutter work required, on teh outside

[stressederic]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

It sounds like a quasi easement where there is no separate dominant tenement and servient tenement. They both have land rights but they have to share those rights or make it formal. I would check the property register to see if there are easements registered there. If there is it's a legal right to use their own land respectively, subject to giving neighbour notice of course. A person cannot be restricted from using their own land even if it does overlap another's.

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The Op referred to safety considerations so i told them they have certain duties as an occupier to others.

Good point though sounds like there's a boundary line between the wall and the garden, presumably not enough space for a ladder at a safe angle though - it is tricky to know from the info given so far - I'd guess there would be issue for accessing to maintain gutters etc too. Good idea to check the deeds ( though that could open up a whole host of new issues - I once had an 'altercation' with a neighbour who suddenly decided she owned my back garden and I had no access rights across the land whatsoever - I evidenced my argument with the original deeds and she went batshit lol )

You would be able to reclaim your costs from the neighbours if you had the access granted I believe, however only if you did everything you could to sort it out before resorting to court action.

I understand the issue with the mould and kids - can really affect their health if its in a sleeping room - not sure about human rights though as there are alternatives available ( that horrible internal secondary glazing, ventilation etc ).

If it will just be to do the sealing and finishing it should only be a few hours work shouldn't it rather than four days ?


The risk assessments don't really have that much to do with an individual property, safe use of ladder, safe use of carrying tool;s, harnessing and so on and they should already have that for H&S regs - have you asked the window guys about it ? that should probably be your next step ( I do get you're worried about the cost of the work increasing due to the extra hassle for the workers but I'd expect they've been through this kind of thing before - worth a chat with them before spending more on solicitors ?)

Yeah should only be a few hours. Put 4 days just incase it all hits the fan but more from the point that my house being an old house and needing more making up e.g re-grouting around window area etc.

Do I guess if I answer this latest letter and they still delay me I will then go to get the access order...

I don't understand why my deeds state I have access rights to retained land yet still I can't access that retained land even tho I have given written notice. Why is this even stated if it means nothing ?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Hi,

Nice to meet you all...im hoping you can help advise me on a situation i have with my neighbor refusing/delaying me access to their land. We dont get along with our neighbors, in fact they have had the police knock on their door with regards to harassment against us.

Issue at hand:
Part of my house over looks my neighbors back garden. the 2 windows which overlook their garden need replacing.
As per the TP1 i have given my neigbors what i deem reasonable written notice (i gave them 2 weeks notice) stating i require access to their rear garden...all this was done via my solicitor.

Their solicitor replied with a letter stating they do not believe this is reasonable notice. They want to know what works will be carried out and what tools used and how many workmen.

So, I replied again via my solicitor stating what the works are, what tools are expected to be used and how many workmen will enter their land, that workmen will access via my rear garden over the fence line as we believe this will cause as least disturbance to my neighbor..and once works start we will require no more than 4 days access. We couldn't give a start date due to weather conditions...How do you get around this...as start dates can change due to weather etc...can you give a 'window' of when you expect the work to be carried out?

I also stated that this is now emergency work as windows leaking causing water ingress and a health risk to my young family (due to black mold growing and i have a toddler and 7 yr old) .

FYI - I called environmental health but they said they dont deal with this kind of thing.

FYI - i only require access to a very small area of their garden That area will have the 2 feet of a ladder on their garden and the top of the ladder on my wall. The workmen will access their garden by foot via my back garden over the dividing fence.

Again, in the letter i stated that i believe this is reasonable notice as per the TP1.


I have now received a letter from their solicitor stating they want a risk assessment doing - what is this and how can a risk assessment be done if we cant access the area to assess it??!!...or can we simply say 'the contractor will carry out the work at their own risk'?...why now are they asking for a risk assessment apart form playing delay games.

Also, they have asked if contractor is insured...which he is. Can we simply reply by saying 'yes, contractor is insured' or do i have to give details?

OR...can i simply just go and get a court order to grant me access with the letters that i have sent and received as evidence...i feel like this letter ping pong will continue and the fact is i need to get these windows replaced.

If i go this route, from start to finish, how much (ball park figure) will it cost to get this kind of court order?...Will i win?...the TP1 states i have a right of access to carry out works with reasonable written notice, which i have done with 2 solicitor letters which were sent over last 5 weeks...and if i win can i claim back all these legal costs??

What is the best thing to do here?

Thanks in advance.

It is crazy to have this fiasco every time you need to maintain your property.

[stressederic]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

It sounds like a quasi easement where there is no separate dominant tenement and servient tenement. They both have land rights but they have to share those rights or make it formal. I would check the property register to see if there are easements registered there. If there is it's a legal right to use their own land respectively, subject to giving neighbour notice of course. A person cannot be restricted from using their own land even if it does overlap another's.

- - - Updated - - -



The Op referred to safety considerations so i told them they have certain duties as an occupier to others.

Good point though sounds like there's a boundary line between the wall and the garden, presumably not enough space for a ladder at a safe angle though - it is tricky to know from the info given so far - I'd guess there would be issue for accessing to maintain gutters etc too. Good idea to check the deeds ( though that could open up a whole host of new issues - I once had an 'altercation' with a neighbour who suddenly decided she owned my back garden and I had no access rights across the land whatsoever - I evidenced my argument with the original deeds and she went batshit lol )

You would be able to reclaim your costs from the neighbours if you had the access granted I believe, however only if you did everything you could to sort it out before resorting to court action.

I understand the issue with the mould and kids - can really affect their health if its in a sleeping room - not sure about human rights though as there are alternatives available ( that horrible internal secondary glazing, ventilation etc ).

If it will just be to do the sealing and finishing it should only be a few hours work shouldn't it rather than four days ?


The risk assessments don't really have that much to do with an individual property, safe use of ladder, safe use of carrying tool;s, harnessing and so on and they should already have that for H&S regs - have you asked the window guys about it ? that should probably be your next step ( I do get you're worried about the cost of the work increasing due to the extra hassle for the workers but I'd expect they've been through this kind of thing before - worth a chat with them before spending more on solicitors ?)

Is there any lintle, roof or gutter work required, on teh outside

It is crazy to have this fiasco every time you need to maintain your property.

It really is especially as it's written in deeds I have a right of access to retained land as long as written notice given...makes no sense.

[Amethyst]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

It really is especially as it's written in deeds I have a right of access to retained land as long as written notice given...makes no sense.

They are just being arses to cost you time and money, and stress. Risk assessment and insurance are fair enough requests ( well they aren't for normal neighbours but in this situation they are and the court would think so too IMO) so I'd have a chat with the window guys and see what they say.

Do I guess if I answer this latest letter and they still delay me I will then go to get the access order...

I think that's the only option you have right now sadly.

[Amethyst]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

The solicitor wants to make sure that the contractors are au fait with health and safety law, reasonable protection in place, otherwise the neighbour's solicitor will sue them under their own liability insurance or the OP directly if there are any personal injuries or losses (owed because breach of duty). Why else would you need risk assessment (obligations) this is what tort is, whether an employer's environment or an occupier's land where there's blame, there's a claim.

I'd guess now that there will be a claim for 'dints in the lawn' or ' damaged to rare plants' or some such crap after the work has been completed.

[stressederic]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

But I guess it works same for them I.e for them to make any claim against me for damages to a worm in their garden will be costly and time consuming?