Neighbor refusing access to their land

[stressederic]

Hi,

Nice to meet you all...im hoping you can help advise me on a situation i have with my neighbor refusing/delaying me access to their land. We dont get along with our neighbors, in fact they have had the police knock on their door with regards to harassment against us.

Issue at hand:
Part of my house over looks my neighbors back garden. the 2 windows which overlook their garden need replacing.
As per the TP1 i have given my neigbors what i deem reasonable written notice (i gave them 2 weeks notice) stating i require access to their rear garden...all this was done via my solicitor.

Their solicitor replied with a letter stating they do not believe this is reasonable notice. They want to know what works will be carried out and what tools used and how many workmen.

So, I replied again via my solicitor stating what the works are, what tools are expected to be used and how many workmen will enter their land, that workmen will access via my rear garden over the fence line as we believe this will cause as least disturbance to my neighbor..and once works start we will require no more than 4 days access. We couldn't give a start date due to weather conditions...How do you get around this...as start dates can change due to weather etc...can you give a 'window' of when you expect the work to be carried out?

I also stated that this is now emergency work as windows leaking causing water ingress and a health risk to my young family (due to black mold growing and i have a toddler and 7 yr old) .

FYI - I called environmental health but they said they dont deal with this kind of thing.

FYI - i only require access to a very small area of their garden That area will have the 2 feet of a ladder on their garden and the top of the ladder on my wall. The workmen will access their garden by foot via my back garden over the dividing fence.

Again, in the letter i stated that i believe this is reasonable notice as per the TP1.


I have now received a letter from their solicitor stating they want a risk assessment doing - what is this and how can a risk assessment be done if we cant access the area to assess it??!!...or can we simply say 'the contractor will carry out the work at their own risk'?...why now are they asking for a risk assessment apart form playing delay games.

Also, they have asked if contractor is insured...which he is. Can we simply reply by saying 'yes, contractor is insured' or do i have to give details?

OR...can i simply just go and get a court order to grant me access with the letters that i have sent and received as evidence...i feel like this letter ping pong will continue and the fact is i need to get these windows replaced.

If i go this route, from start to finish, how much (ball park figure) will it cost to get this kind of court order?...Will i win?...the TP1 states i have a right of access to carry out works with reasonable written notice, which i have done with 2 solicitor letters which were sent over last 5 weeks...and if i win can i claim back all these legal costs??

What is the best thing to do here?

Thanks in advance.

[Amethyst]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

You do have rights (access to neighbouring land act) however you'd need to apply to court for an access order which could end up expensive and time consuming. It sounds like they might be after some form of compensation payment for the access to their land to me. Your window fitters should have risk assessments prepared anyway ( ridiculously long ones for climbing a ladder probably) so you should be able to acquiese to them on that quite easily and they'd soon run out of excuses to delay.

I'd guess your relationship with your neighbours doesn't involve chatting over the fence about the weather on a daily basis being as you've both got solicitors involved from the offset, but have you discussed the situation with them directly ? A solicitors letter about access sounds far more intimidatory than a do you mind if we foot our ladder in your garden for a couple days to replace our windows.

ahh just read your post again

We dont get along with our neighbors, in fact they have had the police knock on their door with regards to harassment against us.

In which case yes you were sensible to go direct through solicitors and your solicitor should be consious of setting a new harassment complaint up against you ( however irrational) so softly softly.

Have you discussed a possiblity of offering a compensation payment to them with your solicitor at all? ( if they continue trying to delay after doing the risk assessment)

[stressederic]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Hi, thanks for your reply.

No we dont get on at all. Thats why i have done everything what i consider to be by the book i.e. what is stated in the TP1/deeds.

There is no mention of compensation within the TP1/deeds (whatever they are called) and I have no intention of having to pay compensation to be able to repair my property. I literally need to place a ladder on a small area of their garden...which 2 workmen max will use and foot.

Is it worth informing my mortgage company about this and see if they can add their weight- as i guess they have a interest in this house??

I dont see how any of this is fair on me. its not like im asking to host a festival on their garden.

Can i class this as further harassment against me?

[wales01man]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Windows could be fitted from inside the hpuse ask your contractor if they will I have done this in the past

[stressederic]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Windows could be fitted from inside the hpuse ask your contractor if they will I have done this in the past

Yeah we spoke about this but some sealing/making up will be required (old house!) from the outside and one of the windows doesn't open.

[Crazy council]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Hi

+++++++++++++ edited out ( note to self, read it properly first )

It looks like you getting caught in a bit of solisitors football, but all what they are asking for is reasonable, and yes, you would have to supply them, on request the details of the contractors insurance ( it will scare 90% of contractors off, being asked that )

One of the others will jump in with advise over the court side of things,

I used to manage property, so have dealt with a few neighbors dispute in the past. Is there anything that you think would ease them up a bit, An old property comes to mind were someone needed acsess to build a part extension that the niegbour didnt want. It can take ages to sort out.

For the amount you would have to spend on solicitors, ect,, maybe, its worth seeing if you can come to a favorable arraignment first ( we agreed to rebuild there wall and have the garden done, cost around £ 800, ), or would some money to cover there inconvienece do better first

[stressederic]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

yes, existing issues. I said to the police man that im willing to sit down and discuss or mediation but his exact words 'i got little change out of that'.

So, i felt i had no option but go the solicitor, by the book route. These people have mad our lives hell since moving here.

What about if i take out temporary works insurance on my buildings insurance?...i dont want to go through all the hassle of getting more quotes and likely more expensive quotes!

[Crazy council]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

The problem is, if they want to be awrquad, it will just go on and on, do you think a sweetner would work

[stressederic]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

No, i really dont think it would, they are evil.

How long do i keep sending responses to their letters before enough is enough and look to gain an access order?
Id prefer just to go this route now instead of spend money on another 10 letters then have to spend on court case.

What is involved? Can i apply myself? Is the TP1 and the solicitor letters from both sides enough evidence for me to give to a judge?

[Crazy council]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

At the mo, there not refusing, just asking for details, so you cant force it yet ( but i think you can )

As an example, that risk assessment thing can throw up some odd stuff, because building materials can contaminate soil, they can insist on it being properly coverd, it can also restrict your contractors options as to how he can carry out the work ( something that can be done on a ladder, will now require scaffold ect ). Thats just one or 2 things the neighbor can do to increase costs and delay the start.

But, question ? how big are the windows and are they at normal hight, and do you have a contrete floor under the window ( on the inside )

[Amethyst]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

The risk assessment isn't unreasonable and a judge will expect that to have been done before any application - they will be being advised by their solicitor and their solicitor will only be able to push it so far. Your window co will have insurance to cover any damage caused by their work etc and it's again not unreasonable to request evidence this is in place. ( though goodness only knows what damage could happen - suppose the ladder could blow over and break a window or a plant pot etc ? who knows)

Access would only be granted for essential 'preservation' work, so obviously I don't know the age of your house, but you'd have to make a case for the ingress of mould and damp into the property would be causing issues with brickwork and so on. Here's the basics http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/23/section/1 and the CPR

ACCESS TO NEIGHBOURING LAND ACT 1992

11.1 The claimant must use the Part 8 procedure.

11.2 The claim form must set out:

(1) details of the dominant and servient land involved and whether the dominant land includes or consists of residential property;

(2) the work required;

(3) why entry to the servient land is required with plans (if applicable);

(4) the names and addresses of the persons who will carry out the work;

(5) the proposed date when the work will be carried out; and

(6) what (if any) provision has been made by way of insurance in the event of possible injury to persons or damage to property arising out of the proposed work.

11.3 The owner and occupier of the servient land must be defendants to the claim.

I've never dealt with such an application so isn't something I would be confident in really, other than figuring it out as you go along. Part 8 is just the claim for remedy other than money - details on that are https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...l/rules/part08 - alopng with the practice directions ( more detailed info ) down the side - the form you'd need is the N208 ( but your solicitor will know all this anyway ) and I think it's currently about £250 in the county court. There is a hearing fee too but I'm not sure how much ( the EX50 isn't very clear in that regard ).

[wales01man]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

If they are double glazed windows they are normally glazed from inside with securing beads fitted inside they could remove all sealed units fit frame seal and then reglaze

[Openlaw15]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Hi,

Nice to meet you all...im hoping you can help advise me on a situation i have with my neighbor refusing/delaying me access to their land. We dont get along with our neighbors, in fact they have had the police knock on their door with regards to harassment against us.

Issue at hand:
Part of my house over looks my neighbors back garden. the 2 windows which overlook their garden need replacing.
As per the TP1 i have given my neigbors what i deem reasonable written notice (i gave them 2 weeks notice) stating i require access to their rear garden...all this was done via my solicitor.

Their solicitor replied with a letter stating they do not believe this is reasonable notice. They want to know what works will be carried out and what tools used and how many workmen.

So, I replied again via my solicitor stating what the works are, what tools are expected to be used and how many workmen will enter their land, that workmen will access via my rear garden over the fence line as we believe this will cause as least disturbance to my neighbor..and once works start we will require no more than 4 days access. We couldn't give a start date due to weather conditions...How do you get around this...as start dates can change due to weather etc...can you give a 'window' of when you expect the work to be carried out?

I also stated that this is now emergency work as windows leaking causing water ingress and a health risk to my young family (due to black mold growing and i have a toddler and 7 yr old) .

FYI - I called environmental health but they said they dont deal with this kind of thing.

FYI - i only require access to a very small area of their garden That area will have the 2 feet of a ladder on their garden and the top of the ladder on my wall. The workmen will access their garden by foot via my back garden over the dividing fence.

Again, in the letter i stated that i believe this is reasonable notice as per the TP1.


I have now received a letter from their solicitor stating they want a risk assessment doing - what is this and how can a risk assessment be done if we cant access the area to assess it??!!...or can we simply say 'the contractor will carry out the work at their own risk'?...why now are they asking for a risk assessment apart form playing delay games.

Also, they have asked if contractor is insured...which he is. Can we simply reply by saying 'yes, contractor is insured' or do i have to give details?

OR...can i simply just go and get a court order to grant me access with the letters that i have sent and received as evidence...i feel like this letter ping pong will continue and the fact is i need to get these windows replaced.

If i go this route, from start to finish, how much (ball park figure) will it cost to get this kind of court order?...Will i win?...the TP1 states i have a right of access to carry out works with reasonable written notice, which i have done with 2 solicitor letters which were sent over last 5 weeks...and if i win can i claim back all these legal costs??

What is the best thing to do here?

Thanks in advance.

Under the Occupier Liability Act 1957, you have a legal responsibility to ensure any work you carry out is done safely in accordance with law. Trespassers are those on your land who do not have rights to be there, you however may owe these duties under the Occupier Liability Act 1984 only in certain circumstances. It may be better to have a board saying work is being carried out, with security barrier, ie using cones or something may be. Ensure the workers have a clear sign indicating work is in progress, too. However, as you and your neighbour's land overlap you have to give due consideration to each other by giving the other reasonable notice where works are being carried out. I think 2 weeks is adequate notice for replacing windows to give to your neighbour. It is simply an environmental problem where your neighbour impedes your reasonable requests, if your neighbour were to threaten you it is a criminal offence: Criminal Justice and Public Order Act. Is this private property or Council housing/ ex council? If it's council buildings.. they built them in the first place so they ought to sort it out

[Amethyst]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

I think the Occupier liability act's are for people attending your property and ensuring your building isn't a danger to others and so on rather than you accessing other others property - although could apply in OP's favour actually if the windows are in danger of ''falling out'' and causing injury or damaging other's property etc as he'd have an obligation to fix them which would assist in the access order app.

Really the simplest way would be to do it from inside however if the windows are only accessible from outside via neighbours garden there could still be an issue as ref above when removing the old windows ( dropping hazard etc)

Must be horrid to have neighbours like that

[ostell]

Re: Neighbor refusing access to their land

Openlaw You have misunderstood the problem and the requirements completely.