PCN from VCS Ltd

[charitynjw]

It is usually the PPC that sets unilateral contract/T&Cs via the site sign.

If you take a look at the site sign (posted up earlier), the permit must not only be displayed, but it has to be clearly displayed in the front windscreen.
Google 'fluttering tickets'.....an eye-opener!

[Setmefree3]

It is usually the PPC that sets unilateral contract/T&Cs via the site sign.

If you take a look at the site sign (posted up earlier), the permit must not only be displayed, but it has to be clearly displayed in the front windscreen.
Google 'fluttering tickets'.....an eye-opener!

Thank you. I looked at post 6 pics and it states this is not a PCN. Does this mean that no tickets have been issued.

[charitynjw]

Thank you. I looked at post 6 pics and it states this is not a PCN. Does this mean that no tickets have been issued.

Do you mean the 'Attention, document enclosed' red ones.

If only, lol.

The ones I've seen are instructing the motorist to either cough up, or ID the driver. They are instructional, not 'official'.

But, pound to a penny, the PPC will have hand-held machine-issued kosher windscreen PCN which magically disappears.
The PPC then has proof that a proper PCN has been issued,
They also have the driver's details if the person parking provides details per the instruction note/letter.

[charitynjw]

This may assist re signage.

Different parking co, but similar issues

[Parsfield#12]

Depends.

Often there is a contract between the land owner & authorised agent....ie an estate management company.

Either the landowner, or management co (as applicable), then contracts with a private parking co (PPC) for the parking regime.....this is often free of charge for the landowner/management/authorised agent.....ie the PPC only makes money on it's PCNs.
I'm told that, on some lucrative sites, the PPC actually gives a cut to the landowner.(Allegedly)

The PPC then *contracts* with the driver, via displayed notices, in & around the parking site.

Hence initially (& via contract law) the contract is between the PPC & any driver who chooses to park therein.

PoFA Sch 4 allows for the liability to be transferred to the registered keeper in certain defined circumstances.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted

I understand that the landowner (or their agents) need to deter non residents and unwanted visitors from blocking up the roads and spaces surrounding the area. My real issue is that I made every effort in arranging my trip to Liverpool to ensure that I had planned ahead and to make sure I had a viable parking solution for the weekend. My thanks for this attitude and due diligence seems to be a £185 slap in the face through indiscriminate and predatory tactics by the PPC!

I have now Acknowledged Service of the claim (issue date 25th Feb). I think I now have 28 + 5 days to submit a defence (26th March) ?
Should I now be raising a SAR ?
Thank you both charitynjw and Setmefree3 for your help thus far.
It really is appreciated.
I look forward to any help that can be provided in piecing together my defence.

[charitynjw]

I understand that the landowner (or their agents) need to deter non residents and unwanted visitors from blocking up the roads and spaces surrounding the area. My real issue is that I made every effort in arranging my trip to Liverpool to ensure that I had planned ahead and to make sure I had a viable parking solution for the weekend. My thanks for this attitude and due diligence seems to be a £185 slap in the face through indiscriminate and predatory tactics by the PPC!

Amen to that!

I have now Acknowledged Service of the claim (issue date 25th Feb). I think I now have 28 + 5 days to submit a defence (26th March) ?
Should I now be raising a SAR ?

Yes, & a CPR 31.14.
I send the 31.14 to the solicitors but if no sols, to the PPC)
SAR - if it were me I'd I'd send to both PPC & sols (if any) & cross-refer.
Proof of sending is vital.
How are you getting on re the consent

Thank you both charitynjw and Setmefree3 for your help thus far.
It really is appreciated.

No probs!

I look forward to any help that can be provided in piecing together my defence

No probs.
.
But best to wait until later.....they just might send you the request(s) info.
But don't miss the court deadline if you don't receive anything....we can just do a 'no disclosure from Claimant' defence.

I'm anticipating that the PPC will claim via contract law, so I'm looking to see how to defend on that basis.
Getting ducks in a row, as it were!

My thoughts.
There is a Private Members Bill winging it's way through Parliament as we *speak*.
The Parking (Code of Practice) Bill.
It has had it's 2nd reading & is on the cusp of gaining Royal Assent.
It has had (pretty well) unanimous support,& is aimed at stopping these cowboy PPCs.
So they are 'making hay while the sun still shines'.
They know (or strongly suspect) that their days are numbered..

[charitynjw]

(Apologies if this is 'teaching granny to suck eggs'.)

A contract has 4 elements; offer, acceptance of said offer, consideration (usually money, but not necessarily, & intent to create legal relations.)

So PPC offer a parking space on [x] terms. (Their T&C's are unilateral, as the driver has no input....either accept it or don't.
By parking, the driver accepts the offer.
Consideration....usually money.
Once parked, legal relations are implied.

Because the contract is based on the displayed unilateral T&Cs, they must be absolutely clear as to what is expected.

As usual things are much more complex....adherence to the relevant Code of Practice, that sort of thing.
& , of course, there is no way that we can predict how the judge will decide....each case turns on it's own facts.
The demeanour of the Claimant/Defendant is also important....judges can make an assessment of the trustworthiness of the parties involved.

That is a 'nutshell' version, but it's good enough for a simple contract like this.

[Parsfield#12]

I'm anticipating that the PPC will claim via contract law, so I'm looking to see how to defend on that basis.
Getting ducks in a row, as it were!

My thoughts.
There is a Private Members Bill winging it's way through Parliament as we *speak*.
The Parking (Code of Practice) Bill.)
It has had it's 2nd reading & is on the cusp of gaining Royal Assent.
It has had (pretty well) unanimous support,& is aimed at stopping these cowboy PPCs.
So they are 'making hay while the sun still shines'.
They know (or strongly suspect) that their days are numbered..

I am looking to complete a 31.14 using the template provided.
This template states:
"To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on XX XXXX 201X2".

However the particulars of claim (attached) doesn't really mention any documents.

What exactly should I be requesting? Is it a copy of the T&C's, the contract ....or something else?

[charitynjw]

Vague Particulars are something that can be brought up in your submitted defence.

Civil Procedure Rules explicitly state the need for claim particulars to identify the reason for the claim.

Usual VCS...."Oi, you owe us money,,,,,cough up! What? Proof? We don't want to be bothered with stuff like that!"

Ok, ask for true copies of all correspondence so far, in particular (but not limited to) all parking charge notices.

Ask for a true copy of the agreement between the landowner (or authorised agent) & VCS which clearly gives VCS the authority to operate on the relevant land.

Ask for any pictures, or any other evidence which VCS intend to rely on in support of their ALLEGED claim.

That should keep Mr R-S busy!

Btw, did you receive one of these ? (At least 30 days before a court claim was issued.)

You have 33 days from the court claim issue date to file a defence at court (28 + 5 for postal delivery of the claim form), so no panic.

Actually, I think that falls on a Saturday; if so, next working day is latest (Mon 1st April?)

[Parsfield#12]

Vague Particulars are something that can be brought up in your submitted defence.

Civil Procedure Rules explicitly state the need for claim particulars to identify the reason for the claim.

Usual VCS...."Oi, you owe us money,,,,,cough up! What? Proof? We don't want to be bothered with stuff like that!"

Ok, ask for true copies of all correspondence so far, in particular (but not limited to) all parking charge notices.

Ask for a true copy of the agreement between the landowner (or authorised agent & VCS) which clearly gives VCS the authority to operate on the relevant land.

Ask for any pictures, or any other evidence which VCS intend to rely on in support of their ALLEGED claim.

That should keep Mr R-S busy!

Btw, did you receive one of these ? (At least 30 days before a court claim was issued.)

OK. Thanks for that.
Did I receive one of what?

[charitynjw]

OK. Thanks for that.
Did I receive one of what?

Lol.....you were too quick for me....I was editing that in!

See post #54

[Parsfield#12]

Vague Particulars are something that can be brought up in your submitted defence.

Civil Procedure Rules explicitly state the need for claim particulars to identify the reason for the claim.

Usual VCS...."Oi, you owe us money,,,,,cough up! What? Proof? We don't want to be bothered with stuff like that!"

Ok, ask for true copies of all correspondence so far, in particular (but not limited to) all parking charge notices.

Ask for a true copy of the agreement between the landowner (or authorised agent & VCS) which clearly gives VCS the authority to operate on the relevant land.

Ask for any pictures, or any other evidence which VCS intend to rely on in support of their ALLEGED claim.

That should keep Mr R-S busy!

Btw, did you receive one of these ? (At least 30 days before a court claim was issued.)

You have 33 days from the court claim issue date to file a defence at court (28 + 5 for postal delivery of the claim form), so no panic.

Actually, I think that falls on a Saturday; if so, next working day is latest (Mon 1st April?)

I did get something called a reply form with 6 pages of badly photocopied tick boxes.
I wasn't sure what it was.
I wrote back to the company by email saying that I disputed the debt and was not going to pay.
I did not send back their paperwork.
I asked for an email response that they had received my email.
I got nothing for a while - and then got an emailed letter saying they were "monitoring my correspondence".

[charitynjw]

Ok, keep the 'not going to pay' emails safe. I take it they were 'polite but firm', not 'bog off you bunch of shysters!'

[Parsfield#12]

Ok, keep the 'not going to pay' emails safe. I take it they were 'polite but firm', not 'bog off you bunch of shysters!'

Of course they were polite but firm!
(not what I wanted to send - I deleted that before pressing send!!)
I need to sign off for now but will complete a 31.14 tomorrow and email and send hard copy - recorded delivery.
I have already emailed a SAR and will send a hard copy of that, recorded as well.
Thanks again.

[charitynjw]

Of course they were polite but firm!
(not what I wanted to send - I deleted that before pressing send!!)
Tempting though, isn't it!
I need to sign off for now but will complete a 31.14 tomorrow and email and send hard copy - recorded delivery.
I have already emailed a SAR and will send a hard copy of that, recorded as well.
Thanks again.

Good stuff!
Boot's on the other (ie, your) foot now!

Btw, just in case you need it.
https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-288918

S R-S has his fingers in many pies!
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/o...8/appointments