PCN from VCS Ltd

[charitynjw]

So the NTD does state the car park name and address and the vehicle. I redacted that information in the copy I sent you, just leaving the City name. Only a contravention date Time is given - not a period

Legislation is legislation.

If they intend to rely on PoFA 2012, the Notice must state a period of parking.

If they pursue via the (common) law of contract, they have to ID the driver.
The Notice has been issued to the registered keeper ( accessed via the DVLA database.)

[ostell]

There's a UKPC case within the last couple of weeks where UKPC lost because of the signs. It's in the Pepipoo forums.

[Parsfield#12]

I think the fact you had a parking permit left in the apartment proves that your intentions were genuine. It would help if you have the original booking advert with parking available. Maybe check the same place on booking.com to see if the same arrangements are there.

I have original email from landlord confirming parking arrangements (I paid him £10 for parking).
I have just looked at Booking.com website and the advert is still there stating parking available.

[Setmefree3]

[QUOTE=Parsfield#12;n1452745]

I have original email from landlord confirming parking arrangements (I paid him £10 for parking).
I have just looked at Booking.com website and the advert is still there stating parking available.

brilliant. Have you sent that email to the company that issued you the tickets. And did you give the landlord your vehicle registration at time of booking.

[charitynjw]

Whilst confirmation of parking arrangements is good stuff, (all grist to the mill), I must stress how important it is not to ID the actual driver. (If you have not already done so, that is.)

& bear in mind there is an actual live court case progressing.
Even if you are 'in the right', the Claimant could get a default judgment (&you a CCJ) if court *rules/procedures are not correctly followed.

*These

[Setmefree3]

Whilst confirmation of parking arrangements is good stuff, (all grist to the mill), I must stress how important it is not to ID the actual driver. (If you have not already done so, that is.)

& bear in mind there is an actual live court case progressing.
Even if you are 'in the right', the Claimant could get a default judgment (&you a CCJ) if court *rules/procedures are not correctly followed.

*These

I think this is a case where the OP has done everything by the book and has been penalised for doing it. I hope that all knowledgable members in this area will support this member for a positive resolution.
Amethyst cloud you clarify or ask for other members to define if the images in post 6 would be clearly sign posted. I’m keen to help the OP out.

[Parsfield#12]

Whilst confirmation of parking arrangements is good stuff, (all grist to the mill), I must stress how important it is not to ID the actual driver. (If you have not already done so, that is.)

& bear in mind there is an actual live court case progressing.
Even if you are 'in the right', the Claimant could get a default judgment (&you a CCJ) if court *rules/procedures are not correctly followed.

*These

As per post #10 I did state I was the driver in my original correspondence and in the on line appeal.

[Parsfield#12]

[QUOTE=Setmefree3;n1452746]

I have original email from landlord confirming parking arrangements (I paid him £10 for parking).
I have just looked at Booking.com website and the advert is still there stating parking available.

brilliant. Have you sent that email to the company that issued you the tickets. And did you give the landlord your vehicle registration at time of booking.

I have not sent a copy of email to company - but I did say to them I that had evidence that I had made parking arrangements. I also sent them a picture of the permit.
I did not give landlord Vehicle Reg at time of booking.

[Setmefree3]

[QUOTE=Parsfield#12;n1452756]

I have not sent a copy of email to company - but I did say to them I that had evidence that I had made parking arrangements. I also sent them a picture of the permit.
I did not give landlord Vehicle Reg at time of booking.

Amethyst I have tagged in for an opinion. I wish you all the very best in resolving this issue.

[charitynjw]

As per post #10 I did state I was the driver in my original correspondence and in the on line appeal.

Beg your pardon, so you did!

I'll have another read through the thread &, in particular, the postal PCN.

Back shortly.

[charitynjw]

Ok, the postal PCN is silent as to reliance on PoFA, so it is likely that they are looking to sue under contract law rather than legislation.

The alleged contract is with the driver only; there can be no transfer of liability to the registered keeper. (In law these are 2 separate entities, even if they are the same person.)

You've admitted to being the driver at the time of the incident, so we have to look to the 'contract' (site sign'.).

In my opinion it fails the 'Beavis' test(here at para 91).....but unfortunately I'm not the judge.

Also imho it is a 'forbidding' sign, & therefore no contract can be formed. (But again, ^^^^^^)

[Setmefree3]

In layman terms you can only argue that you had an agreement with the owner for parking. You did in all good faith purchase parking rights. Did the owner stipulated that you were required to display the permit upon arrival? However the sign in my own option is not CLEARLY signposted.

[Setmefree3]

Ok, the postal PCN is silent as to reliance on PoFA, so it is likely that they are looking to sue under contract law rather than legislation.

The alleged contract is with the driver only; there can be no transfer of liability to the registered keeper. (In law these are 2 separate entities, even if they are the same person.)



You've admitted to being the driver at the time of the incident, so we have to look to the 'contract' (site sign'.).

In my opinion it fails the 'Beavis' test(here at para 91).....but unfortunately I'm not the judge.

Also imho it is a 'forbidding' sign, & therefore no contract can be formed. (But again, ^^^^^^)

charitynjw The OP entered in an agreement with the landlord over parking by paying a fee. Just a brain freeze thought, who is actually responsible for any tickets?

[charitynjw]

The OP entered in an agreement with the landlord over parking by paying a fee. Just a brain freeze thought, who is actually responsible for any tickets?

Depends.

Often there is a contract between the land owner & authorised agent....ie an estate management company.

Either the landowner, or management co (as applicable), then contracts with a private parking co (PPC) for the parking regime.....this is often free of charge for the landowner/management/authorised agent.....ie the PPC only makes money on it's PCNs.
I'm told that, on some lucrative sites, the PPC actually gives a cut to the landowner.(Allegedly)

The PPC then *contracts* with the driver, via displayed notices, in & around the parking site.

Hence initially (& via contract law) the contract is between the PPC & any driver who chooses to park therein.

PoFA Sch 4 allows for the liability to be transferred to the registered keeper in certain defined circumstances.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted

[Setmefree3]

Depends.

Usually there is a contract between the land owner (or authorised agent....ie an estate management company).

The landowner /management co then contracts with a private parking co (PPC) for the parking regime.....this is often free of charge for the landowner/management/authorised agent.

The PPC then *contracts* with the driver, via displayed notices, in & around the parking site.

Hence initially (& via contract law) the contract is between the PPC & any driver who chooses to park therein.

PoFA Sch 4 allows for the liability to be transferred to the registered keeper.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted

charitynjw Thank you. I think the point I’m trying to make, is does the landlord have to stipulate, that upon arrival a permit must be displayed in the vehicle for parking purposes.