My Ex reported me for hitting on her. What's up with that?

[robbyduffy]

I'm meeting with a solicitor on Thurs. Leaning towards fighting it. But:

I don't expect any great loss of earnings from being issued a caution so not prepared to pay more than a grand on this.

The caution lasts for 6 years and I don't expect to run into any more trouble with the law. This is such a weird case. Even my solicitor says so.

I want to understand what can be done to stop people just bankrupting people via legal costs by accusing them of thing after thing.

I understand that I won't get any legal costs back if it doesn't make it to court. I probably can't even sue the system or the alleging party for small claims.

[2222]

If you fight this and refuse to accept a caution, does your solicitor think it is likely the CPS will actually take this to court? They may just drop it completely.

If you accept a caution, you are accepting you are guilty of a sex offence. This has all sorts of repercussions that you have not mentioned. For example, it may disbar you from the USA Visa Waiver programme (ESTA) for the rest of your life. Just being arrested can do that, regardless of outcome.

We do not recommend that travelers who have been arrested, even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction, have a criminal record, certain serious communicable illness, have been refused admission into, or have been deported from, the United States, or have previously overstayed under the terms of the Visa Waiver Program, attempt to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to US visa law and spent convictions,regardless of when they occurred will have a bearing on a traveler’s eligibility for admission into the United States.

You clearly had no criminal intent at the time, and it is clearly a pretty minor matter, but I don't think you are taking this seriously enough.



"I want to understand what can be done to stop people just bankrupting people via legal costs by accusing them of thing after thing."

You have only been accused of one thing, though? It's not an unfair accusation, as the incident happened. The lady views it differently from you. That's all.



"I understand that I won't get any legal costs back if it doesn't make it to court. I probably can't even sue the system or the alleging party for small claims."

You have no chance of successfully suing the lady for making what appears to be a perfectly fair report to the police.

[robbyduffy]

Thanks for this. I do business in US and my partner is from NYC so I am over there quite a bit.

I don't think that the case would ever make it to court - a pretty minor matter as you say. But most of my hesitation comes down to money - the only reason I wouldn't fight is because I don't want mounting bills. Hence my other points:

Regardless of my sitch. What hypothetically stops someone accusing someone of random stuff to just incur them loads of legal costs.

And I'm not talking about suing for making a report; I'm talking about suing for forcing the accused a legal cost for something for which there was found to be no offense...and maybe also by extension defamation damage.

[jaguarsuk]

Defamation claims are heard in the High Court and so if you are not wanting to incur huge legal bills that’s probably not a good route to go down.

I’d image the “victim” would claim the defence of honest opinion in making the reports and stick you with her legal costs too.

[2222]

There's nothing to stop people making false accusations. They can do jail time for it, though. Morally, it's abhorrent - it contravenes one of the ten commandments, for example.



"And I'm not talking about suing for making a report; I'm talking about suing for forcing the accused a legal cost for something for which there was found to be no offense...and maybe also by extension defamation damage."

I don't get this. Are you saying that witnesses should be made to pay the criminal because a prosecution is mishandled and the criminal gets off?

Or, suppose you see what appears to be a crime and report it. Are you to be held responsible for the fact it turns out later not to be a crime? Maybe, there's a valid defence, as in your case, where the criminal act depends not just on what happened but on the state of mind of the accused. It's impossible for the witness to know what the accused was thinking.

Well, that's not the law, and for good reason in my view. Where I have sympathy is whether the state should provide you with legal help to defend yourself.

[robbyduffy]

OK When you put it from the point of view of a witness then it doesn't make sense but if the victim is pressing charges and the defendant incurs legal costs and found innocent then my point is valid.

And yes you are entitled to free legal help from the duty solicitor. But that's just for support in the presence of the police. What about legal advice that I'm having to pay for? Why does an accuser get the satisfaction of incurring me a cost of hundreds/thousands?

...and be careful with the Bible because I haven't stoned a gay for aaaages and I ate cuttlefish for lunch.

[robbyduffy]

Police are still waiting for a response on whether I want to accept a caution or not. Current legal bills have come to 950£.

Again my issue with accepting a caution is that I travel to US regularly. Also "I didn't do it".

[Setmefree3]

You say that you stroked the leg of one of your ex girlfriends to test the water. This can be seen as sexual assault. The police are asking you after all this time as to whether you will accept a caution?

enlighten me, as to why you think it’s acceptable to inappropriately touch your ex? I’m baffled?

my daughter was sexualy assaualted 4 years ago, so I’m keen to know why your title is what it is?

[robbyduffy]

Good point. It wasn't to 'test the water' to see if we still liked each other. We continued to be physical for a while after splitting up. It was more just horseplay and consistent with the type of relationship we had. So it's acceptable in that it's the same way that you and I and everyone treats people with whom they are physical.

I don't know why it took her so long to report it. I think something bad happened to her in summer but can't ask now! And police have not been pressing hard on this frivolity.

Sorry about your daughter - I reckon that when people do get victimised - like when I got mugged - it feels really awful for months. Trust me that being falsely accused by someone you loved is on a par with that - I'm losing my hair.

[Setmefree3]

I really can’t comment anymore based on your last post.

[2222]

I think we should simply accept the OP's explanation that he thought the touch would be welcomed. It's not helpful to be judgmental after the event, and I think he'll not do it again.

As to whether to accept a caution, that is pleading guilty, and it gives you a criminal record. If you had no criminal intent, I'd be inclined to refuse the caution. The chance is then rather high the police and cps will simply drop the matter, but there's a chance they'll take it to court. Even if they do, it's not a foregone conclusion you'd be found guilty. What does your solicitor advise are the chances?

generally you are offered a caution if either the matter is trivial OR the cps don't think there's a good chance of conviction. They are not supposed to prosecute cases where they assess their chances at under 50%, but that's pretty subjective. Do you know at all how they're viewing this?

[fuzzybrain]

I don't expect any great loss of earnings from being issued a caution so not prepared to pay more than a grand on this.

The caution lasts for 6 years and I don't expect to run into any more trouble with the law..

Please discuss the long term implications of accepting a caution with your solicitor as accepting a caution could possible jeopdise your employment.

Your solicitor should had made you aware that a caution remains on criminal record for life, although it maybe considered spent after 6 years an Enhanced DBS checks will show details of all spent and unspent convictions, cautions, reprimands and final warnings held on central police records (apart from protected convictions and cautions) plus additional information held on local police records that is reasonably considered relevant to the job in question.

Any cautions or convictions for offences involving assault/sexual abuse would most likely be disclosed on an Enhanced DBS check regardless whether it was considered spent or not. I’ve attached a link that explains DBS checks in more detail, I hope this is helpful to you.

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-...ctionOrCaution

[robbyduffy]

Trivial is precisely the word I used to describe it and I wouldn't assess the probability of them getting a conviction as over 50%. Solicitor makes as though it it low, though I wonder if this is just to reassure me and keep me in a certain headgame should I need to make an appearance.

Fuzzy, Maybe I was told that the caution stays on a record for life. I don't recall. Thanks for the link. The friendly font is very relaxing.

The solicitor pushed back on the caution and it all seems to have gone quiet. Not sure if they would let us know if they decide to drop it or whether they just let it slip into the night.

To be continued...

[robbyduffy]

So I received summons to pop to court next friday.

Lawyer is trying to figure out whether an officer or a dept lawyer filed this with magistrate's.

Since posting, I've had more than 19 girls touch my leg. I'm thinking about giving wimbledon police a bit more work to do since they enjoy this kind of stuff so much!

I'm currently without income so wondering what the bottom line is going to be here.

[des8]

Well good luck with the court.
Please let us know how it proceeds as it may help someone else later.