The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

[des8]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

Oh, enaid, what a bleak view of the UK!

Cheer up and have a look at this oversimplification of the situation http://www.edmundconway.com/2013/01/...ltimate-chart/

There is more to trade than the heavy industries, and IMO our previous dominance in those fields was based on cheap supply lines of raw materials from exploitation of UK manual workers and the Empire resources.

I personally prefer the current situation

Oops crossed with your last post.

[enaid]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

Have to disagree Des, financial and insurance the biggest 52% the very industries that has brought many UK folks to their knees in rip offs and plain theft imho, well good luck to them trading abroad maybe they wont get away with it there.
Other business ? gawd knows lol

Yes i do have a bleak view, not enough schools, hospitals, houses, jobs to name but a few and no sign of any improvement on this for all the clone clowns jibberish about a growing economy.

[Crazy council]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

just an opinion

it is other countries that have helped the demise of many of our once booming industries., The latest steel, then textiles, coal, ships, farming, cars to name just the main ones , but it seems we depend on them to invest here

Maybe, were timing our withdrawal from a number of collapsing industry's as best we can

Steel, and basic ore metals ..... A technique called deposition printing or layer sintering ( basically printing it ) has been developed to cut out many of the stages between melting ore and final part production.... Its perhaps a good time to let the old side of the industry fail and invest in the new side ( we do that quite well, )

Coal/Oil .... Batteries, wind, solar, hydro ( again, were quite advanced in this lot ) , lot of jobs in these industry's atm.


Farming.... Lol, any farmer in the uk that has managed tio survive the past 10 years is fighting fit... France would have more of a problem here

I think, were changing at the right time, but a lot of Europe and the rest of the world arnt, so we take the punishment now, and change our industry/workforce around while things are tight, whilst the EU is still held back by unions in these industry's that resist change ( french )

[PAWS]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

Many very good points there! The coal industry had started to slide after the first world war due to a really stupid reparation agreement but rallied again during WW2 and from from then was propped up by subsidies. Competitive supplies were coming in from all over the world long before Polish Coal appeared and certainly long before Poland joined the EU. Totally agree about Steel and other heavy industries- However Farmers, and by that I mean most medium to small farmers have been struggling not since we joined the EU but since the markets became controlled by supermarkets with huge buying power. They have also crucified many of their other suppliers. A few months ago one manufacturer of Sauces went bust. ASDA insisted on being their exclusive distributor then pulled the plug. The smaller farmers are treated like this by the big buyers all the time and 10-15 sell out every month. The knock on effect on feed and machinery suppliers not to mention the local full time and seasonal employment is often severe. This can then practically shut down a rural area.
If it was not for EU subsidies most would be gone already.
When it comes to cheaply produced goods using slave labour – that does not happen in Europe because workers are protected by firm laws that are rigidly imposed. Should we leave we may see an increase in such products being imported although we have far too many as it is. I do not however believe we would resort to allowing such dreadful working conditions in this country but then ….what about the Pound shops situation, where everything in the shop is worth a pound except the workers!

[PAWS]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

I just want to say one thing -there is much debate around on this issue and everywhere we have people giving us chapter and verse as to why we should stay in or leave. These are the experts who are all paid to convince us one way or the other but none would, in my opinion, hold a candle to the contributors on here. I actually mull over all the brilliant points made on here where as they can neither put together a convincing argument or deliver it with the same level of intelligence or eloquence as you good folks.

[enaid]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

I really don't understand the subsidy or the need of it. It just proves to me and my simple mind how bent most industry is. If a farmer says he can produce and sell milk as cheap as a Polish import then that should be what's happening.
I just read an article on a sandwhich making factory employing from abroad Northampton unemployment arguments on both sides and who can actually prove which is right. I do know though, although the foreign imported workers are more than likely paying their dues re tax and NI they will not be contributing anywhere near enough into the pot that is paid out of the pot to keep the unemployed locals in their homes.
Simple maths in my simple mind, without going into the doubling of the population in the area and the services and housing not growing alongside.

[PAWS]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

Well if your mind is simple then my husband should be getting a grant for me!
Thanks for the link to that article -that is damned despicable and the employer should be taken to task for it. He should have advertised locally and if Europeans were over here and applied fair enough but to go there to recruit is shocking.
That is a case of a miserable owner who wants cheap labour he can exploit.

In many cases it costs the farmers more to produce than they get paid for it by the supermarkets - especially milk. This can also apply to crops and meat but Dairy farms seem to be in dire straights. We, the consumers buy most of our food from supermarkets as we need to watch the pennies so there really is no competition. To be fair all the big supermarkets did agree to continue to buy British milk and not imported but they still put the squeeze on the producers. One season of bad weather which means less silage for winter feed can be enough to drive the farmer out of business.

It is estimated that for approximately 90% of UK farmers the EU subsidies make the difference between life and death (literally in some cases). There are many different subsidies depending on what and where you farm. They are paid for various reasons. To make up a difference in estimated or market prices or to allow land to lie fallow and therefore reduce a glut of a certain crop . Now the value of a crop might vary but they will get a set payment of maybe £200 per hectare to leave the land unused for that year. I am not sure of the exact amount and it does vary. Although it does add up to almost 3 billion Euros per year -yep, that’s 3 billion we get back from the EU. Broken down however it is not a huge amount of income unless you are a huge landowner. Some farmers have to live on 10k or less per year and it is estimated as many as ¼ have secured loans against all of their land. The reason farmers, Veg growers, wineries etc. (If the price of wine goes up I will have a complete hissy fit!) get this is because the EU recognise their industry is vital but vulnerable. It also needs regulation to make sure everyone is not growing sunflowers! Would you believe we export more than 50% of the food we produce to other European countries. We import a lot because we cannot grow everything but the EU take a lot of our stuff too.

[enaid]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

Ok so the way I see that the subsidy is really to control what and when they grow or produce stock?
Please correct me if I have that wrong.
If it is correct how corrupt is that?
Every arable farmer knows or should know his land and all about crop rotation, growing seasons etc.
Every dairy and meat farmer knows his stock and how to get the best yield from them too.
I know we cant grow bananas the highest selling produce in supermarkets not long ago, but i doubt many are grown in the EU either lol
It's just all wrong imho so very wrong and set to line the pockets of the already rich, but i may be wrong on that too

[PAWS]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

I see what you are saying but unfortunately they cannot control either the selling price or the cost of production and they have to be protected so we have enough food. It is the same in America. I was appalled when we had to bail out the banks but we cannot let our banks go bust even when they are guilty of bad practices. The farmers however are hammered by rising costs v the drop in the value of the food they produce. Add to that the pressure from Supermarkets and they could be squeezed out of existence. In the 1930’s in America the small farmers were crushed, the banks repossessed and eventually the farms bought out by the big intensive landowners. The result was huge swathes of dust bowls / waste land and the demise of many rural communities.
Farmers give us food, local employment and prop up many rural communities.They also are responsible for our beautiful countryside. I know many have diversified to make more money but not all can make a profit from petting zoos and organic yogurt!

[skyway]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

I met a lady on a train recently who said all our problems, including immigration would be cured if we ...wait for it....All became ChristiansANDIf you think thats bad she went on to add..And not part time Christians such asThe Archbishop of Canterbury ANDThe POPETakes a lot to shut me up but that worked

[PAWS]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

I met a lady on a train recently who said all our problems, including immigration would be cured if we ...wait for it....All became ChristiansANDIf you think thats bad she went on to add..And not part time Christians such asThe Archbishop of Canterbury ANDThe POPETakes a lot to shut me up but that worked

Classic!

[seduraed]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

Exactly why I will vote remain . I do not want to be left alone on small island with a bunch of tories. I bet if we vote to leave the ##Scots will vote to stay want another referendum and then split the UK up .

[Guest]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

Exactly why I will vote remain . I do not want to be left alone on small island with a bunch of tories. I bet if we vote to leave the ##Scots will vote to stay want another referendum and then split the UK up .

I agree
Do I want to be in a country run by Tories who will make things worse for us normal people who work hard and pay our taxes
I hope that lots of Scots do come out and vote to remain in as it might help the ins to win

Knowing the Scots they will all vote out thinking it will get them another referendum on independence

[LowEbb]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

I met a lady on a train recently who said all our problems, including immigration would be cured if we ...wait for it....All became ChristiansANDIf you think thats bad she went on to add..And not part time Christians such asThe Archbishop of Canterbury ANDThe POPETakes a lot to shut me up but that worked

Bless her, perhaps she had a cognitive impairment ?

[charitynjw]

Re: The Cameron Campaign Pamphlet.

Bless her, perhaps she had a War Cry?

IFYPFY

:madgrin: