EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Post #60. Y'know Peter, I think you're not even reading the thread are you?

Well no Pote I don't have the thread memorized.

Here it is

The information you requested is as follows:

1. What happens at your Local Authority should a Council Tax account that has been passed
to an Enforcement Agent receive a payment, either a full or part payment, direct from the
debtor?

If a payment is received in relation to a debt that is with the Civil Enforcement Agents for collection they are informed of the change in balance.

2. If you pass no money on to the Enforcement Agent, do you inform the agent of any
payments made? Do you advise that they need to make their own arrangements to collect
their fees?

Civil Enforcement Agents are fully aware of the fees that they can charge Council Tax Payers which are set under legislation and are enforceable.

3. If you pass all or any money onto the Enforcement Agent, please can you show the exact
legislation that compels you to do so, directing me to the specific part?

As advised in question 1, the Civil Enforcements Agents are informed of any changes to balances of any cases in their possession.

Fees enforceable, agent advised of changed balance, there seems to be a pattern emerging here Pote do you see your error yet ?

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Because they say they pass nothing onto the EA. Simple really.

Pote a bit of basic maths for you.

not physically passing money to the EA = receiving less form the ea

[Amethyst]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

I think possibly you are asking the wrong question as surely it wouldn't be physically transferred monies it would be allocated somewhere higher up then sorted out monthly/annually ?

eg. EA's fail to collect on debts and the debtors pay the council direct. Maybe the full amount originally owed to the council - maybe part of, maybe more than, The council lets the EA know how much is paid and the EA continues to collect for the remainder, then end of month the council pays their EA bill which includes pro rata's on the payments they have received from debtors with instructed bailiffs

so say CT/EA bill is say £600 inc £200 EA fees ( £400 council tax/ £200 ea fees)
Debtor pays council £500
EA informed that only £100 is still owed

end of month/whatever Council allocate the £500 payment 33% to EA and 66% to their own coffers. EA continue collection of remaining £100 on which they'd pass 66% to the council and keep 33% ???

Just a vague rambling theory to chuck in the ring.

(I've used £200 simply because I couldn't be pooped to do proper maths)

If a council doesn't have a cash office then of course they can still do transfers, they just don't have a cash counter. It wouldn't work like that on a one to one basis anyway is what I am saying.

Argue about that for bit

I am showing myself up, being an idiot, stubborn, ignorant, a bailiff, into FMOTL, and S&M if you like.... so that's out the way and you lot don't need to bring it up.

[Amethyst]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

lol, and while I was typing ( I got sidetracked ) you've pretty much said the same, so I'll get my coat

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Well no Pote I don't have the thread memorized.

Here it is

The information you requested is as follows:

1. What happens at your Local Authority should a Council Tax account that has been passed
to an Enforcement Agent receive a payment, either a full or part payment, direct from the
debtor?

If a payment is received in relation to a debt that is with the Civil Enforcement Agents for collection they are informed of the change in balance.

2. If you pass no money on to the Enforcement Agent, do you inform the agent of any
payments made? Do you advise that they need to make their own arrangements to collect
their fees?

Civil Enforcement Agents are fully aware of the fees that they can charge Council Tax Payers which are set under legislation and are enforceable.

3. If you pass all or any money onto the Enforcement Agent, please can you show the exact
legislation that compels you to do so, directing me to the specific part?

As advised in question 1, the Civil Enforcements Agents are informed of any changes to balances of any cases in their possession.

Fees enforceable, agent advised of changed balance, there seems to be a pattern emerging here Pote do you see your error yet ?

Why did you stop there Peter? Does the next question and reply make you uncomfortable?

4. If there is no such legislation, can you direct me to any policy, contract or service level
agreement you have in place that compels you to pass on direct payments?

We do not pass money over to the Civil Enforcement Agents where there is a balance still due to the Council.

Altogether now

WE DO NOT PASS MONEY OVER TO THE CIVIL ENFORCEMENT AGENTS WHERE THERE IS A BALANCE DUE TO THE COUNCIL

[Amethyst]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...a-partial-fine could do with a hand if poss xxx

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Peter, when the LA pass the account to the EA, they provide a sum that needs recovering, ie £500. The EA sends out a letter saying the debt is now £575.

The debtor makes a direct payment of say £100 to the LA.

The LA will update the EA to say the sum that needs recovering is now £400.

The EA is now seeking £475.

The direct payment has reduced the amount owed only to the council, the EA fee has not reduced.

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

I think possibly you are asking the wrong question as surely it wouldn't be physically transferred monies it would be allocated somewhere higher up then sorted out monthly/annually ?

eg. EA's fail to collect on debts and the debtors pay the council direct. Maybe the full amount originally owed to the council - maybe part of, maybe more than, The council lets the EA know how much is paid and the EA continues to collect for the remainder, then end of month the council pays their EA bill which includes pro rata's on the payments they have received from debtors with instructed bailiffs

so say CT/EA bill is say £600 inc £200 EA fees ( £400 council tax/ £200 ea fees)
Debtor pays council £500
EA informed that only £100 is still owed

end of month/whatever Council allocate the £500 payment 33% to EA and 66% to their own coffers. EA continue collection of remaining £100 on which they'd pass 66% to the council and keep 33% ???

Just a vague rambling theory to chuck in the ring.

(I've used £200 simply because I couldn't be pooped to do proper maths)

If a council doesn't have a cash office then of course they can still do transfers, they just don't have a cash counter. It wouldn't work like that on a one to one basis anyway is what I am saying.

Argue about that for bit

I am showing myself up, being an idiot, stubborn, ignorant, a bailiff, into FMOTL, and S&M if you like.... so that's out the way and you lot don't need to bring it up.

Yes this is probably what happens in a lot of cases, you know what I used to do for a living and it makes sense to me.

The formula regarding the compliance fees and the pro rata payments will result in the debtors account being debited by the appropriate amount and the appropriate fees being adjusted so that the EA gets what he is owed, probably quarterly, I would think.

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Peter, when the LA pass the account to the EA, they provide a sum that needs recovering, ie £500. The EA sends out a letter saying the debt is now £575.

The debtor makes a direct payment of say £100 to the LA.

The LA will update the EA to say the sum that needs recovering is now £400.

The EA is now seeking £475.

The direct payment has reduced the amount owed only to the council, the EA fee has not reduced.

You need to look at this form the point of view of the EA since it is them that the debt is payable, irrespective of who the money is delivered to.

The total amount outstanding under the regs would be 575, 100 has been paid therefore 475 is due to the EA(total amount now outstanding).

Of this when the amount eventually received is divided up and if no other monies are received 75 will go to the bailiff(if for some reason there is no enforcment stage fee) and 25 will come off the liability order.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

You need to look at this form the point of view of the EA since it is them that the debt is payable, irrespective of who the money is delivered to.

The total amount outstanding under the regs would be 475, 100 has been paid therefore 375 is due to the EA.

Of this when the amount eventually received is divided up and if no other monies are received 75 will go to the bailiff(if for some reason there is no enforcment stage fee) and 25 will come off the liability order.

If you truly believe that Peter, then the only option is to advise the debtor to pay nothing until the EA returns the warrant; then the fees will definitely be removed.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

You need to look at this form the point of view of the EA since it is them that the debt is payable, irrespective of who the money is delivered to.

No Peter, the debt remains the council's at all times.

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

If you truly believe that Peter, then the only option is to advise the debtor to pay nothing until the EA returns the warrant; then the fees will definitely be removed.

Not a question of what I believe pote this is what the legislation say.

This refers to a situation where payments have been made, the situation where no payments are made is a different subject entirely.

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

No Peter, the debt remains the council's at all times.

The responsibility for collecting the debt is transferred to the EA via the warrant, payment is due to them whilst the debt is under an enforcment power.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Have you forgotten Eastleigh already?

We do not pass money over to the Civil Enforcement Agents where there is a balance still due to the Council.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

The responsibility for collecting the debt is transferred to the EA via the warrant, payment is due to them whilst the debt is under an enforcment power.

Nope - it's the council's at all times and they cannot refuse payment.